What about this 50s car ?

J.J.S.S.Express · 22 Nov 2005, 08:16 (Ref:1467143)

I search to find what is this car. Do you have any ideas ?
I think this picture has been taken at Silverstone but I'm not sure...

The Badger · 22 Nov 2005, 08:48 (Ref:1467161)

Maybe a triumph .

mgrs · 22 Nov 2005, 09:19 (Ref:1467187)

I rekon thats a Lister Jag ?

Dave Brand · 22 Nov 2005, 09:49 (Ref:1467205)

It's an Alfa 8C 2900 with body by Carrozzeria Touring which was built for the 1938 Le Mans race, which is probably where the picture was taken.

**Bentley03** · 22 Nov 2005, 09:58 (Ref:1467209)

Could be wrong but I believe that's a late 1930's or early 1940's Alfa Romeo Coupe.

You were there before me, and far more accurate!!!!

mgrs · 22 Nov 2005, 10:04 (Ref:1467212)

well the one thing i know for sure is that they are all in for one hell of a *******ing from the ACO, complete disregard for the regs here. no goggles, no fireman (well cant see him), to many people in the pit lane, fueling whilst the engine cover is up. And is that man wearing plus 4's, immediate stop go for those!

The Badger · 22 Nov 2005, 10:11 (Ref:1467220)

I like that safety fence !!!

**John Turner** · 22 Nov 2005, 10:24 (Ref:1467237)

This is a very famous car, still owned and kept by Alfa in their museum and allowed out occasionally for special events. As Dave Brand says it is the 1938 8C 2900B fitted with a body by Carrozzeria Touring and the only one built in this form. It was entered for that year's Le Mans carrying the no 19, and that photo above is therefore taken in the pits at Le Mans. The car was driven by Sommer and Biondetti, and was devastatingly fast. At the end of 12 hours, it was leading by 5 laps comfortably outpacing all its pursuers with performance in hand. After 21 hours it had a 12 lap lead, due both to its continuing pace and attrition amongst its competitors. However, it then had a front wheel puncture which damaged the bodywork. Following pitwork it continued to lead but then had a engine valve break, resulting in several pitstops and finally retirement, when Biondetti limped into the pits at the end of 22 hours. A Magnificent run, a magnificent failure and a magnificent motor car. A truly great GT car before that term was coined.

**John Turner** · 22 Nov 2005, 10:32 (Ref:1467246)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgrs

well the one thing i know for sure is that they are all in for one hell of a *******ing from the ACO, complete disregard for the regs here. no goggles, no fireman (well cant see him), to many people in the pit lane, fueling whilst the engine cover is up. And is that man wearing plus 4's, immediate stop go for those!

Well don't forget we are talking 1938 here. However, I agree that, unless you knew, the appearance of the car could suggest an early 1950's picture.

Incidentally, Minichamps produced a good model of this car a year or two back, limited to 4004 pieces. It's an absolute must for anyone collecting Le Mans models.

iucrmh · 22 Nov 2005, 12:19 (Ref:1467377)

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Turner

Incidentally, Minichamps produced a good model of this car a year or two back, limited to 4004 pieces. It's an absolute must for anyone collecting Le Mans models.

Also released by a company called Pinko (worth looking out for) and as a handbuilt by Provence Moulage (just before they went bust).

Minichamps model looks like this,
http://www.minichamps.de/content_fra...3=160&cat4=168
Pinko like this,
http://www.gammamodels.com/modello.asp?idauton=265

fazzaz · 22 Nov 2005, 13:04 (Ref:1467432)

The Alfa 8C LM coupe was informally known as "The Devil's Breath."

**FIRE** · 22 Nov 2005, 13:25 (Ref:1467448)

Quote:

Originally Posted by fazzaz

The Alfa 8C LM coupe was informally known as "The Devil's Breath."

Why?

krt917 · 22 Nov 2005, 13:53 (Ref:1467467)

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Turner

This is a very famous car, still owned and kept by Alfa in their museum and allowed out occasionally for special events. As Dave Brand says it is the 1938 8C 2900B fitted with a body by Carrozzeria Touring and the only one built in this form. It was entered for that year's Le Mans carrying the no 19, and that photo above is therefore taken in the pits at Le Mans. The car was driven by Sommer and Biondetti, and was devastatingly fast. At the end of 12 hours, it was leading by 5 laps comfortably outpacing all its pursuers with performance in hand. After 21 hours it had a 12 lap lead, due both to its continuing pace and attrition amongst its competitors. However, it then had a front wheel puncture which damaged the bodywork. Following pitwork it continued to lead but then had a engine valve brake resulting in several pitstops and finally retirement, when Biondetti limped into the pits at the end of 22 hours. A Magnificent run, a magnificent failure and a magnificent motor car. A truly great GT car before that term was coined.

Just to add, it was basically the lone challenger to the hordes of French Delages, Delahayes and Talbots, which otherwise dominated sportscar racing in the 1930s. The Alfa ran ahead of them - and the Bugatti race recod pace from the year before - before backing off a bit.

Such was it's lead it took the eventual winner an hour or more to actually overhaul the distance covered by the Alfa. One of the great hard-luck stories of Le Mas history.

It's one of my all-time favourites, partly due to that story, and partly due to its appearance. I've always preferred coupes, and that was one of the few closed cars to appear at Le Mans before WW2. I think it's fantastic!

As an extra note, I believe there was a smaller engined Alfa 8C entered the following year with similar bodywork, but that car had a nightmare run.

J.J.S.S.Express · 22 Nov 2005, 14:03 (Ref:1467471)

than you for your answers !

J.J.S.S.Express · 22 Nov 2005, 14:08 (Ref:1467477)

today's picture

TWK · 22 Nov 2005, 14:53 (Ref:1467515)

So that's where BMW got the idea!

paul-collins · 22 Nov 2005, 15:20 (Ref:1467529)

Beautiful car; beautiful photo. Thanks, guys.

**John Turner** · 22 Nov 2005, 17:01 (Ref:1467606)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWK

So that's where BMW got the idea!

Are you referring to the 328 Coupe that finished 5th at Le Mans in 1939? There were certainly some styling similarities.

J.J.S.S, noting that you have found a modern picture of this car, were you just testing us, and already knew what it was, or have you found the picture, since? No matter, it's a great car; one to die for!

Incidentally, any chance the mods here can move this to the Historics forum, (when they think it appropriate, of course!), please?

TWK · 22 Nov 2005, 18:10 (Ref:1467677)

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Turner

Are you referring to the 328 Coupe that finished 5th at Le Mans in 1939? There were certainly some styling similarities.

J.J.S.S, noting that you have found a modern picture of this car, were you just testing us, and already knew what it was, or have you found the picture, since? No matter, it's a great car; one to die for!

Incidentally, any chance the mods here can move this to the Historics forum, (when they think it appropriate, of course!), please?

No, I'm referring to the much more recent M-Coupe and the newer Z4-based "breadwagon." The resemblence in the Le Mans pits photo is erie.

**John Turner** · 22 Nov 2005, 18:35 (Ref:1467702)

Well, in a way there could be a link. The M coupe (which I think is a wonderful crazy tool) was based on the Z3 which was decidedly, and intentionally retro (as to a certain extent is the Z4), and clearly took its styling cues from earlier BMWs. The BMW coupe I mentioned above had a styling much in common with the Alfa, so you may well have identified the link.

David McKinney · 22 Nov 2005, 19:49 (Ref:1467767)

Quote:

Originally Posted by krt917

Just to add, it was basically the lone challenger to the hordes of French Delages, Delahayes and Talbots, which otherwise dominated sportscar racing in the 1930s.

Eh?
Just run through the 1930s Le Mans winners for me again could you?
And the Mille Miglia
And the Spa 24hr

**John Turner** · 22 Nov 2005, 20:37 (Ref:1467811)

I think KRT got a little carried away here, but certainly the Alfa in the 1938 Le Mans race was one of only two in the race and was heavily outnumbered by a heavy contingency of French 'big guns'. Perhaps, in respect of Le Mans at any rate, he should have said second half of the 30's, since Alfas did win from 1931 to 1934, but never again.

krt917 · 23 Nov 2005, 13:19 (Ref:1468312)

Quote:

Originally Posted by David McKinney

Eh?
Just run through the 1930s Le Mans winners for me again could you?
And the Mille Miglia
And the Spa 24hr

Yes, sorry, perhaps I should have been more specific - I was referring to the late 1930s.

The Germans were dominating GP racing by, with the Italians occasionally having a go at them, and winning in voiturette racing, whilst some of the French companies turned to Sportscar racing, hence three straight wins at Le Mans '37-'39.

However, I take your point about Alfas, who were always quick in the Mille Miglia and, taking the 1930s as a whole, were probably the most successful sportscar marque.

**Aysedasi** · 28 Nov 2005, 18:34 (Ref:1472375)

Nice thread guys - very enjoyable to read. Thanks.

Dave Brand · 28 Nov 2005, 20:03 (Ref:1472440)

Now available as a 1:43 model from Minichamps!