Sauber

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by S griffin

And later we had Mugen Honda

LOL. That WAS a Mugen Honda!

[OVERSTEER]

Megatron badged BMW.
Petronas badged Ferrari.

[E.B]

Renault engines were branded as Supertec, and also Mecachrome. Also there was Playlife.

[S griffin]

And don’t forget Ilmor branded Mercedes engine or Megatron badged BMW

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by E.B

Renault engines were branded as Supertec, and also Mecachrome. Also there was Playlife.

In this case, Mecachrome is the engine supplier, the badges were Renault, Supertec and Playlife.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

In this case, Mecachrome is the engine supplier, the badges were Renault, Supertec and Playlife.

Were they not Renault designed engines built by Mecachrome?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by E.B

Were they not Renault designed engines built by Mecachrome?

According to this Wikipedia entry, Renault are responsible for design and Mecachrome assembly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecachrome#Formula_One

[Akrapovic]

The Renault RS9 was manufacturered and managed by Mecachrome. Mecachrome updated the engine after Renault left and sold them to Super Performance Competition Engineering. Thank god they shortened that to Supertec.

[Tourer]

Why M. Vasseur didn't go ahead with Honda power: Makes Sense

In case that story is behind a paywall:

Frederic Vasseur cancelled Sauber's 2018 Honda Formula 1 engine deal within an hour of starting as the team's new boss last summer.

Sauber had agreed to become Honda's second F1 team under the leadership of Vasseur's predecessor Monisha Kaltenborn, but Vasseur was concerned by McLaren's struggles with the Japanese manufacturer and wanted Sauber to increase its collaboration with Ferrari instead.

"I joined on July 17 at 9am, and the meeting [about Honda] was at 10am," Vasseur told Autosport.

"For me it was important. It is never easy to change the engine supplier first, but Honda was not in very good shape.

"Plus, and probably most important for me, we were linked to McLaren for the gearbox with absolutely no internal resources to do our own one.

"I was convinced, as I had some contacts at McLaren, that they would do their best to leave [Honda]. So I could not be in a position to risk that.

"Imagine today if I had to request the Honda gearbox from McLaren? It would be an absolute nightmare.

"Being in the process of working on our 2018 car, we were not able to postpone the decision."

Sauber subsequently agreed a new deal with Ferrari that upgraded it to current-specification engines after a season running year-old designs.

It then enhanced that partnership by gaining Ferrari's sister brand Alfa Romeo as its title sponsor and signing Ferrari's Formula 2 champion protege Charles Leclerc for its second 2018 race seat alongside Marcus Ericsson.

Sounds like the previous administration at Sauber hadn't thought it all the way through. Seems that the Alfa option is a safer bet, Honda would have been a huge gamble for Sauber.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Sounds like the previous administration at Sauber hadn't thought it all the way through.

That’s why they needed a new boss in the first place.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by peebee2

That’s why they needed a new boss in the first place.

Yeah - I suspect one of several reasons.

[steve_r]

On the face of it, for a team at the back of the grid, becoming (by default) essentially a "works" team or the sole entry for an engine supplier instead of running out of date engines from a different manufacturer appears to be a good thing.

When they pulled out of the Honda deal, I thought they must be mad. However, with a little more light shed on the subject, it is clear that there were several complications to overcome such as the gearbox issue. That is without even taking into account the dismal performance and reliability of the Honda engine.

The step closer to Ferrari now makes sense, and I hope this results in an upturn in performance for them.

I wonder what gearbox Torro Rosso will be using?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by steve_r

I wonder what gearbox Torro Rosso will be using?

Deleted as the answer was absolute nonsense. Lesson learnt; always read question at least twice before putting digit to keyboard!

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by steve_r

On the face of it, for a team at the back of the grid, becoming (by default) essentially a "works" team or the sole entry for an engine supplier instead of running out of date engines from a different manufacturer appears to be a good thing.

When they pulled out of the Honda deal, I thought they must be mad. However, with a little more light shed on the subject, it is clear that there were several complications to overcome such as the gearbox issue. That is without even taking into account the dismal performance and reliability of the Honda engine.

There was/is a lot of moving parts to the entire Honda in F1 situation. For all we know, if Sauber had kept the deal, it could have been read as an incentive for McLaren to stay with Honda (in that McLaren would benefit as well from the Sauber usage). In that scenario there would have been a gearbox from McLaren.

But I think the Sauber deal was reversed before McLaren knew for sure what they would be doing (only McLaren can say for sure "when" their mind was made up.

Even then, while less than ideal, I can imagine that part of the McLaren/Honda divorce could have included a gearbox deal for Sauber (a bit of a long shot).

Originally Posted by steve_r

I wonder what gearbox Torro Rosso will be using?

I may have this wrong, but I think TR makes their own with some (or many) components provided by RBR. So in general I think TR will be creating their own gearbox.

Richard

[chillibowl]

i think Monisha Kaltenborn did a tremendous job keeping the team afloat (through a very difficult time) and no questioning her loyalty to Peter Sauber and the team...but ability and the best of intentions doesnt preclude the possibility of making bad choices.

the 'too many drivers' controversy from a few years back and what seems to have been a premature agreement to partner with Honda could be examples of that.

though if the Sauber names disappears next year, will this Alfa deal still be looked on by us (or Sauber fans) as the more favourable deal?

[S griffin]

I think Sauber are slowly learning from their mistakes, hence why they pulled out of the Honda, realising it wasn’t gonna go as easily as they thought. Hopefully this Alfa deal is the start of recovery

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I think Sauber are slowly learning from their mistakes, hence why they pulled out of the Honda, realising it wasn’t gonna go as easily as they thought. Hopefully this Alfa deal is the start of recovery

When you are fighting for financial survival, in motor racing or in business, sometimes you do deals with people that you would otherwise not have done because you think it is in the best interests of keeping the doors open.

Except.. quite often you get punchdrunk, living in the space of failure such that some offer, any offer, that seems to incrementally move the financial needle in the right direction is a better deal than todays. You begin to believe that what you are doing isn’t good enough to attract more conventional solutions and partners.

So new eyes show up. Kill the deal that would likely have killed Sauber, and go make nice with other people who see your value.

[BSchneiderFan]

I wonder how commentators are going to refer to Sauber this year? Will they include the “Alfa Romeo”? Waste of Alfa’s money if they don’t.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

I wonder how commentators are going to refer to Sauber this year? Will they include the “Alfa Romeo”? Waste of Alfa’s money if they don’t.

Alfa Sauber, or Sauber Romeo?

[BSchneiderFan]

Disappointing to see Sauber “anchoring”, as Autosport so delicately puts it, the timesheets after FP2, but, realistically, who are they going to beat?

[BSchneiderFan]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Alfa Sauber, or Sauber Romeo?

It makes me wonder why the deal wasn’t extended to rebadging the engines, then they’d be Sauber-Alfa Romeos. Simples, surely? Reminds me of that season when they were BMW Sauber-Ferrari.

[Skam85]

They’re a lot closer to the midfield than last year

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Skam85

They’re a lot closer to the midfield than last year

The current spec PU must be a big help.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by wnut

The current spec PU must be a big help.

Still very little external partner branding on the car, despite all the stories about the attractiveness of the Alfa Romeo nameplate...

[ASCII Man]

They know the difference between a nameplate and an actual manufacturer partnership effort. Nothing really changed for Sauber.