The Return Of Kimi Räikkönen...

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by Mr V

No worse than having Rubens on track in my opinion.

A lot better I would say, seeing as Raikkonen is the better driver.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

A lot better I would say, seeing as Raikkonen is the better driver.

Up to circa 2006 yes, but not now.

[Born Racer]

Sorry, but I'm struggling to see how Rubens could ever be better than Kimi. A reasonable driver, but when he had his chance against Jenson, Jenson blew his socks off by and large, and many rate Kimi higher than Jenson, or at least similar.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Sorry, but I'm struggling to see how Rubens could ever be better than Kimi. A reasonable driver, but when he had his chance against Jenson, Jenson blew his socks off by and large, and many rate Kimi higher than Jenson, or at least similar.

Yes, of course but we're talking about a driver who wasn't at his best when he left, so how are we certain that he'll be any good if he comes back?

[Paradise City]

The only reason Rubens might be 'better' is that he's more accustomed to the machinery and the people. That's not nearly enough to refuse the KR deal.

[strider]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Yes, of course but we're talking about a driver who wasn't at his best when he left, so how are we certain that he'll be any good if he comes back?

He scored more points than anyone else in the second half of the season he left (after Massa's accident) except Hamilton who scored 1 more, so how does that stack up?

[herowassenna]

Originally Posted by strider

Obviously I'm like a sponge at soaking up information about Kimi, but I've never seen or read any proper explanation. Sorry.

Could it be something as simple as he was just not that motivated in 2008 and the team naturally gravitated towards the hard worker?

I am always fascinated by body language and reading between the lines of people's statements, and I personally was a little disturbed by Ron Dennis being interviewed at the end of 2006.
He had Alonso already signed up and he wasn't being magnanimous when he said he "was happy for Ferrari" having Kimi going there. Ron hated losing anybody to Ferrari, period.

I remember his disappointment at Senna leaving for Williams for 1994 and saying he would be back in a couple of seasons.
I think Ron, probably better than anyone, knew what Kimi's attributes were, both positive and negative.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by strider

He scored more points than anyone else in the second half of the season he left (after Massa's accident) except Hamilton who scored 1 more, so how does that stack up?

It doesn't does it.

I really hope that Williams do the deal (1 year deal is enough), and if all doesn't go well with Williams, he will have done well enough to get a drive elsewhere.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Marbot

It doesn't does it.

I really hope that Williams do the deal (1 year deal is enough), and if all doesn't go well with Williams, he will have done well enough to get a drive elsewhere.

No, but then if he was that good why did Ferrari let him go in the first place.

The Kimi of 2003/04/05 was mega, but where did he go after that?

There is no disputing that Williams need a quick topliner with experience but who is also going to work their socks off in the simulator and in whatever testing they do if the team has any hope of maximising their race weekends.

Is Kimi capable of that though at this stage of his career?

My hope is he'll do a 'Lauda' and come back with massively renewed hunger and motivation to do all that is required of him, and that isn't simply driving quickly.

[Super Hans]

I'd love to see Kimi at Williams.

I like to think his time away will have refreshed him.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by strider

He scored more points than anyone else in the second half of the season he left (after Massa's accident) except Hamilton who scored 1 more, so how does that stack up?

The great unknown of course is, how many points would Massa have scored had the accident not happened?

It's something we'll never know but that would have been the only yardstick to judge Kimi's (2nd half of the) season.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Mr V

The great unknown of course is, how many points would Massa have scored had the accident not happened?

It's something we'll never know but that would have been the only yardstick to judge Kimi's (2nd half of the) season.

I was going to pst the very same V!

So sad to see Massa currently scrabbling aound in Alonso's wake.

Funny thing is that there was a time I thought Alonso and Kimi in the same time would've been cataclysmic, but then Massa pumped Kimi most of the time and then he crashed and that was the end of that, for both.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

A lot better I would say, seeing as Raikkonen is the better driver.

Is he? Although it's now a reasonable supposition - let's face it, Rubens is a tad past his sell-by date - whether Raikkonen lives up to some of the hype in the thread remains to be seen.

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Sorry, but I'm struggling to see how Rubens could ever be better than Kimi. A reasonable driver, but when he had his chance against Jenson, Jenson blew his socks off by and large, and many rate Kimi higher than Jenson, or at least similar.

Rate - or rated?


The proof of any pudding will always be in the eating - in the present/future.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Up to circa 2006 yes, but not now.

I think pound for pound, Kimi is the better driver, he has natural talent in spades, whether he decides to use it is another matter.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by herowassenna

He had Alonso already signed up and he wasn't being magnanimous when he said he "was happy for Ferrari" having Kimi going there. Ron hated losing anybody to Ferrari, period.

Isn't that like Honda saying that they are happy to see Dovi go to Tech 3, because the grid needs good riders?

I don't see the problem with Ron's statement, after all, he signed Fernando around about the same time that Ferrari (apparently) signed Kimi.

[strider]

Originally Posted by chunterer

No, but then if he was that good why did Ferrari let him go in the first place.

They'd already signed Alonso at at that time. Kimi probably deserves brownie points for continuing to drive his socks off for them despite knowing that.

Originally Posted by chunterer

The Kimi of 2003/04/05 was mega, but where did he go after that?

He went to Ferrari! We've been discussing what happened to him there, but it is a statistical fact that he had exactly the same number of wins - 9 - at Ferrari as he had had at McLaren.

Originally Posted by chunterer

There is no disputing that Williams need a quick topliner with experience but who is also going to work their socks off in the simulator and in whatever testing they do if the team has any hope of maximising their race weekends.

Is Kimi capable of that though at this stage of his career?

My hope is he'll do a 'Lauda' and come back with massively renewed hunger and motivation to do all that is required of him, and that isn't simply driving quickly.

That's what I hope too, obviously, but whether or not it will happen I honestly don't know. Things were very different in the McLaren years. They had a test team with Alex Wurz and Pedro de la Rosa as drivers, and whilst they may not have been in the top drawer as race drivers they were very good at testing.

Kimi tested as well, of course. I know someone who was around at the time and he thought he was the epitome of cool. If the engineers said they were going to make some changes to the car and it would take an hour or so, he'd go off to the motorhome and have a power nap. They'd fetch him when they were ready and he would instantly be awake, bright as a button and go out and drive the car to its limits, so they'd know straightaway if the changes had been for the better or not.

He's going to have to do a lot of that if he comes back, because nowadays there's no test team, no test drivers and wholly different cars. If he agrees to come back it will only be because he thinks he can handle that.

Sorry for going on a bit but I came across another interesting Kimi factoid the other day. In the rallies he's clearly not at the level of the top drivers yet, but when they go testing and are driving round and round on the same stage, he is right up there. His co-driver, who is very experienced, says it would take him four seasons to make the transition completely and so far he's only done two.

End of essay.

[kurski]

http://www.ts.fi/moottoriurheilu/f1/277168.html

Räikkönen's managers in Williams premises

Turun Sanomat 14.11.2011 01:36:00

Kimi Räikkönen's managers David and Steve Robertson made a quick visit to Yas Marina Grand Prix -paddock on Sunday. What do you know, the Robertsons followed the beginning of the F1-race in Williams premises.

Frank Williams assured on Friday night to MTV3 that he is very interested in getting Räikkönen to his team.

Robertsons were completely silent about the matter.

– The times are completely different from those times for example in 2001 when Kimi started in Sauber, because these days even being a top talent isn't enough to assure a team seat, Robertson told Turun Sanomat.

Co-founder of Williams-team, Patrick Head, admitted before the race when asked once again, that they have thought about getting Räikkönen earlier too.

– We were interested in Kimi when he drove for Sauber. We proposed to make a deal to our partner at the time, BMW, but they thought it would be too expensive, Head cleared.

So far only Pastor Maldonado's continuance in Williams next year is sure.

[Born Racer]

In the interests of keeping the discussion a bit more cheerful, I think until we have some concrete news, the thread should be temporarily closed. Normally I have a live-and-let-live approach to threads, but we still have no news on Kimi.

Feel free to send me a PM if you feel it should be re-opened. You may be right that it should. Or mods, feel free to re-open it if you feel the same.

[Born Racer]

Re-opened upon request.

[Bononi]

You better decide !!!


























I don' see why, but anyway...

[Born Racer]

I don't want to stop people having the debate. There doesn't seem to be any more news at this stage though on his impending return.

[Bononi]

Will he return ? :/

[Born Racer]

Maybe I should have said impending return or lack thereof. But that would be just be adding to the conjecture. In other news "No news on a Kimi return". If I looked at Autosport, there would probably headlines akin to 'F1 fans eye internet to see if Kimi is still eyeing F1 return' and for the subscribers an article entitled 'Why a Kimi return would be good for F1'.

[Marbot]

The Ice Man cometh, but so is Christmas.

[strider]

I'm not sure what is going to happen next. Rubens made pretty good progress from dead last to finish 12th on Sunday and he thinks that should be enough to justify him keeping the drive.

On the other hand the people from the bank Williams are talking to for sponsorship were also there on Sunday and they should have come away thinking that Williams are certainly not such a bad team as they looked to be on Saturday.

They were probably less impressed by Maldonado's performance.