Where have the most important RX cars gone to?

[jim6r4]

RX-Guru you are wrong, iam very proud of the rallycross and Pikes Peak history of my car,i know several owners in the southeast who own cars with rally,rallycross,pikes peak, ice racing history and daker history,and to say we are only intrested in rally history is wrong

[rx-guru]

Originally Posted by jim6r4

RX-Guru you are wrong, iam very proud of the rallycross and Pikes Peak history of my car,i know several owners in the southeast who own cars with rally,rallycross,pikes peak, ice racing history and daker history,and to say we are only intrested in rally history is wrong

Okay, lets get my point a bit clearer: If a Group B RX car has a Rally history of relevance a collector will re-convert it to its Rally specs.

[GOLDFINGER]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Stigs / J Palmer / King Hussein car today in its road bodywork

looks a lot better than last time i saw it after jp had backed it into the Lydden bank trying to emulate Mr Rallycross

[MG Rover Sport]

That's what I'm confused about - who are these journalists that keep cropping up in posts?

[dcdesign]

I suppose everyone knows the guru here, a sort of walking rallycross-encyclopedia...

[1975DCS]

Originally Posted by rx-guru

For what use should a Group B car remain in RX trim and/or livery if it has a Rally history? Collectors are not at all interested in their Rallycross history, but only in their Rally history (in this case Timo Salonen’s 1985 San Remo Rally car). BTW, why is the first 205 E2 of RX history now called the ex-Schie 205? It was Finn Seppo Niittymäki who got it by mediation of Ari Vatanen from PTS and scored its most important RX results by winning the 1987 ERC. Therefore we should call it the ex-Niittymäki 205.

I start joining Rallycross in 1989, so I missed the Nittymäki years. For me Schie is the latest owner. Nothing official about me calling it ex Schie...

I understand collectors want it to look like orginal Rally cars. But it would be complete madness to bring the car back to lower specs. If I would own one I would never detune an Alamäki, Schanche or Gollop car back to Rally spec. imagine throwing away the turbo's on Gollop's 6R4... But ofcourse I would throw in some headlights, to make it roadlegal...

Most collectors (especially in the UK) are in to OEM everything, including those stupid old tyres! It is the same with an Ford Sierra RS500 and it's on/off turbocharger that makes no sense at all with 220 bhp. It could do a lot better than that!

[MG Rover Sport]

I suppose it all comes down to personal preference when it involves restoring a car to anything from it's past. Some people ignore a more recent livery or driver, and return to to a previous one that has had more success or glory.

And to be perfectly pedantic - Gollop's 6R4 (either nomally aspirated or bi-turbo) never had any previous rally history. If I was the current owner of that car and used ir for hillclimbing as he does, then I woould discard his current red livery and return it to the famous black / red / gold Silkolene livery circa 1992 ERC.

[rx-guru]

@ 1975DCS: Understand your point, but some GpB collectors have never seen a RX event in their live and accept those cars only in factory WRC specs.
And if the car has retired during the XYZ WRC Rally in 1985 or 1986 it counts more for them than that Mister XYZ has won the ERC of 198?/199? with it.

[1975DCS]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

I woould discard his current red livery and return it to the famous black / red / gold Silkolene livery circa 1992 ERC.

Me too! Best looking 6R4 in Rallycross! Although I do like a plain white one too...

[1975DCS]

Originally Posted by rx-guru

@ 1975DCS: Understand your point, but some GpB collectors have never seen a RX event in their live and accept those cars only in factory WRC specs.
And if the car has retired during the XYZ WRC Rally in 1985 or 1986 it counts more for them than that Mister XYZ has won the ERC of 198?/199? with it.

Yup, I know! I think it also has to with Rallycross being hard on cars and replica bodypanels: WRC cars look better in detail for sure (and are allways road legal)!

[MG Rover Sport]

Originally Posted by 1975DCS

Me too! Best looking 6R4 in Rallycross! Although I do like a plain white one too...

Thanks for agreeing, however I too agree withyou about a plain white 6R4, but it has to be lowered on tarmac suspension and have white wide tarmac spec Dymag wheels on it too! Dog's danglies...

[rx-guru]

Originally Posted by 1975DCS

Me too! Best looking 6R4 in Rallycross! Although I do like a plain white one too...

On my first pics of Will’s 6R4 (RX GP 1986) it is more or less plain white.

However, it has a rear wing that makes the 6R4 looking much better. I have a wonderful slide in my archive of Marc Duez driving a 6R4 in the 1984 Belgian Condroz Rally as some kind of "zero car" (but no reg no on its front, no zero car sticker on its left door) without rear wing and one can think he is hurling a dog kennel on wheels over the track.

[1975DCS]

Originally Posted by rx-guru

On my first pics of Will’s 6R4 (RX GP 1986) it is more or less plain white.

However, it has a rear wing that makes the 6R4 looking much better. I have a wonderful slide in my archive of Marc Duez driving a 6R4 in the 1984 Belgian Condroz Rally as some kind of "zero car" (but no reg no on its front, no zero car sticker on its left door) without rear wing and one can think he is hurling a dog kennel on wheels over the track.

The 6R4 needs a rear wing! I think al widebody's are in need of a rear wing, including the current Div 1... Thankfully they all have one! WRC style looks the best at the moment: Knapick's 207 doesn't look as good as Pailler's...

[MG Rover Sport]

Originally Posted by rx-guru

On my first pics of Will’s 6R4 (RX GP 1986) it is more or less plain white.

However, it has a rear wing that makes the 6R4 looking much better. I have a wonderful slide in my archive of Marc Duez driving a 6R4 in the 1984 Belgian Condroz Rally as some kind of "zero car" (but no reg no on its front, no zero car sticker on its left door) without rear wing and one can think he is hurling a dog kennel on wheels over the track.

Is this the photo you're on about? - Marc Duez using one of the first three prototype 6R4s in a demo on the 1984 Condroz...

[rx-guru]

No!

[MG Rover Sport]

Originally Posted by 1975DCS

The 6R4 needs a rear wing! I think al widebody's are in need of a rear wing, including the current Div 1... Thankfully they all have one! WRC style looks the best at the moment: Knapick's 207 doesn't look as good as Pailler's...

Talking of 6R4s with no rear wing, how about this photo of the very first 1983 Williams F1 designed 6R4 prototype? I like, I like a lot...

[Chessmsport]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

Talking of 6R4s with no rear wing, how about this photo of the very first 1983 Williams F1 designed 6R4 prototype? I like, I like a lot...

Never seen that before in some ways its nicer than the finished thing, its not as brutal.

[Busy Bee]

Patrick Piverts yellow group B BX4TC from Goodwoood last year

[chunder]

The issue here and always will be that rallycross has no history with collectors, and these are the people that can afford to buy these cars. Not fans like us who would give a right arm to afford one!

Names like Alamaki, Schanche, Holm and Gollop hold no weight when it comes to selling them as Eddi quite rightly says.

Names like Alen, Salonen and Kankunnen are far more interesting to buyers and it is ONLY about money, nothing else that people buy these cars. It must be the same with the RS5900 cars and the various M3's that were used.

Lets face it they w re only used in such high numbers in rallycross coz they were banned and were relatively cheap, available and most importantly sorted for their use.

Schanche only got his RS sorted relatively late in its life, and guys like Will had to resort to fairly extreme methods to get speed out of them. Very few Metros were still 3.0 N/A. Which makes the achievement of Rob Gibson, Silvennionen etc who used them amazing.

The 205 was easily the best available, but like the 206 now, they are expensive, hard to look after as was the S4.

[Busy Bee]

Any collector of any type of race car will put their possession in the most famous livery in the cars history. A 205 that competed in the world championship is always going to be superior history to rallycross history.

There are cars in rallycross that a collector is bound to want to put back into rallycross livery.

Gollops metro has no rally history of note as far as I know. Its history is its rallycross livery. Why would a collector paint the car in Computervision colours? These colours would devalue the car. This would be the same for Schanche's car, Pat Doran's car back in Q8 colours, etc

[1975DCS]

Isn't the history also importend, so you know the Group B was originally tuned by the factory and not "some" converted road car? This would also be the case for example the Fabia of Larsson, it is better, faster and more succesful, but is not factory build nor road legal, so worth less...

[Busy Bee]

Factory history is important if the cars were tuned at the factory. Gollops, Schanches, etc were not tuned by the factory.

The Fabia is an interesting comparison. The Larsson car is probably worth more than the WRC cars at present. The number of cars available will also determine price. People are spending more on building a MK2 escort than what a lot of group B cars are worth. A 98 WRC subaru is worth half what is being spent on MK2 escorts

Unfortunately, in the future the Larrson car will have little value in the UK. ERC does not have the TV coverage here.

[chunder]

Try watching Motor telly!! You can catch it there!!

The only reason a WRC Subaru is cheap is coz it simply ain't quick anymore compared to Focus and newer Subaru cars. And they are after all 12 years old!! I am sure if theya re ex Mcrae or Burns they will be very valuable in time.

And also the Irish guys ibn their Escorts are all pucing each other with basically a no limits policy! Youc an run just about any engine, gearbox etc. That hasnt been designed to be used with a Mk2 hence the prices!

[Busy Bee]

Another classic post from Chunder

Rallycross is not promoted to the mass TV audience in the UK. You can just about find rallycross being screened at midnight on some obsure channel. Thats one of the main reasons rallycross in the UK is in such a poor state. There is no public following.

How often to you see a rallycross car at any historic event in its original livery?

Only for the Dorans I doubt the ERC would ever have returned to the UK, so we have been fortuate to see these modern ERC cars for the last few years. As for there long term value or collectability in the UK, unfortunatley, I doubt there will be much interest

I had thought 1975DCS was talking about works cars and privately built cars, not speed!!!!!

Also, Look at the results for the Killarney rally 2010. Won by a 98 Subaru WRC in front of more modern cars

[chunder]

Rallycross was never ever on the mass tv even in its heyday in the 80's and 90's in the UK.

You got the rallycross GP and that was about it, nothing else.

In its prime days of the 70's and early 80's it was on the telly but not all the Euro races.

Irish rallying is fraght with contention!! I doubt somehow that every event is not won by someone local, lets put it like that!