[WEC] Porsche Prototype Discussion

[carbon_titanium]

the actual GTE power output is simply senseless to me; ok GT2 cars had to have 450-500hp because of the presence of GT1 cars, but GT1 cars are dead since 2010/2011! it's just insane to keep on spending a lot of money for expensive heavily tuned racing GTE engines when GT3 engines are a lot cheaper, more powerfull and have the same (if not longer) life mileage!

look at 458 GTE and 458 GT3!
458 GTE = about 550Nm and <500hp @6500rpm
458 GT3 = about 520-540Nm and >520hp @8000rpm

maybe GT3 engine has worse consumes (in wec 458 GTE can run about 60-62 minutes with 85L, in BES 458 GT3 can run about 75 minutes with 100L) but both of them can last at least 24 hours with the 4.5 V8 inside the GT3 car a lot cheaper than the GTE motor.

I hope that for next GTE specs will be used these kind of engines, closer to road versions, more powerfull and cheaper. I hope also no more air restrictors with the introduction of fuel flows and ECU revlimiters.

[Articus]

The manufacturers are hardly spending that much money on engine development in GTE these days. Engine spec is effectively frozen. Porsche has been running the same engine for ages because BOP can keep they competitive. The 458 engine has been the same. The BMW V8 in the Z4 ran in the M3 prior. The Aston has been running the V8 for some time now. Similarly Corvette will stay with the 5.5 V8 strictly because they already developed it and have engine blocks, heads etc. There is already a larg amount of of cost consciousness regarding engine development in GTE in my mind.

[carbon_titanium]

I didn't talk about development costs, but just about production costs... a GTE engine shares only the main structure block with the street motor, GT3 engine shares in a range of 50-70% parts. So my question is: why keep on using more expensive engines when you can get a more powerfull engine with the same reliability for less?
BoP exists in GT3 too.
Anyway if am I not wrong, Z4 GTE uses an updated version of the same 4.4 Z4 GT3 engine.

[hcl123]

the whole hierarchy is artificial and makes little sense in face of the spirit of 'efficiency'...

There should be only 1 GT class mimicking the road cars, regulated with costs in mind... the other should be open and regulated by fuel energy, the same kind of rules of LMP1, which are quite less complex and more open rules and tend to counter-balance cost explosions(the complex the rules and rule changes the higher the costs), should extend to the GT ... lets see if a supercar GT can win overall... because that is spirit of the rules now (supposed to be, but in face of some bizarre contradictions i have doubts).

[Spyderman]

Here it is by Nick Holland. Basically what I was arguing over at the Audi thread. Nick and I come to very similar conclusions: http://nh247.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/...y-numbers.html

[Artur]

I'm really frustrated with the possibility of FIA/ACO slowing LMP1s down My biggest curiosity, motorsports-wise, these days is by how much they would improve next year.

Some senior member, please, start a thread/topic asking the members to send messages to FIA/ACO asking them to NOT slow them at all. Speed up the others, but don't touch on the LMP1s, that's my concern. The fans are the real bosses, not ACO or FIA. Let's tell them how it should be

[gustavobamba]

Time to make my prediction about the Le Mans test day…

Porsche will go around 3:18/20 and will go 340 km/h top speed

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Artur

Some senior member, please, start a thread/topic...

Please feel empowered to do this yourself. 'Senior' members are equally ill prepared to run an international motorsport series

[hcl123]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Here it is by Nick Holland. Basically what I was arguing over at the Audi thread. Nick and I come to very similar conclusions: http://nh247.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/...y-numbers.html

he goes too long to fail to see the obvious... 7 stops each... that 35 sec corresponds to the difference between a splash fuel only and a full service stop. So its a feature, like Porsche 8MJ which Audi can't have for now... on its turn triple stinting Porsche can't have for now...

The rest and more important... i don't remember an endurance race with so many changes of leader in so short amount of time, 'fight' on the track was red hot... and that is what is important, was not a win falling from the sky( the same if it had been Porsche winning) or making a position on others problems, offensive and defensive drive was intense, puts the spectators glued to the action and can only bring more fans -> "Artur" here seems ready to storm FIA/ACO offices if they robb him of the action lol...

[MyNameIsNigel]

"Les Suisses au Mans" speculate that talks will be renewed between Buemi and Porsche after LM for a possible cooperation in the future. Just speculation, but an interesting one.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

"Les Suisses au Mans" speculate that talks will be renewed between Buemi and Porsche after LM for a possible cooperation in the future. Just speculation, but an interesting one.

If true, I wonder who he would come in to substitute. I have often thought about who would go if say Hulkenberg decided to come to the series. I cant see Porsche discarding some of the "aged" members such as Webber, Dumas or Bernhard, so unless one of them does not want to stay for 2016 , I cant see where they would fit in. I suppose there is a possibility that Webber's contract ends next year and that he does not want to continue, but I know nothing about that. Hartley is very quick (occasionally makes mistakes) and is still learning and growing. It would be silly to let him go. Jani is gold. Lieb is as good as any of the others on his day, with the added value of being an engineer. Bernhard is still very fast and for all intents and purposes is the lead driver in #17.
Any thoughts?

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by Artur

I'm really frustrated with the possibility of FIA/ACO slowing LMP1s down My biggest curiosity, motorsports-wise, these days is by how much they would improve next year.

I share your frustration. They think that they are not doing their jobs if they don't mess with the rules. They believe regulation is the remedy for all "evils". They ignore the fact that good governance also involves knowing when not to intervene. It's a mentality issue. There simply is no point in trying to argue against that mind-set. They think we are from Mars.

[TF110]

Just speculation. The same site thought Beche would be reserve driver for Toyota but it ended up being Kobayashi. If Toyota let him go thatd be foolish.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

If true, I wonder who he would come in to substitute. I have often thought about who would go if say Hulkenberg decided to come to the series. I cant see Porsche discarding some of the "aged" members such as Webber, Dumas or Bernhard, so unless one of them does not want to stay for 2016 , I cant see where they would fit in. I suppose there is a possibility that Webber's contract ends next year and that he does not want to continue, but I know nothing about that. Hartley is very quick (occasionally makes mistakes) and is still learning and growing. It would be silly to let him go. Jani is gold. Lieb is as good as any of the others on his day, with the added value of being an engineer. Bernhard is still very fast and for all intents and purposes is the lead driver in #17.
Any thoughts?

Webbo is on the only 1 making sense right now.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by Articus

Webbo is on the only 1 making sense right now.

I have to agree. I think he might be the "less permanent" one.

[wdave0]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

I have to agree. I think he might be the "less permanent" one.

Although he seems to be relishing the ride Porsche might not want to keep the black cloud of bad luck he seems to carry with him.

[Spyderman]

I think it may have to do with "other activities" that he seems quite keen to pursuit.

[Spyderman]

It looks like Mako is reserve driver for LMP1 program:http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/jou...he-919-hybrid/

[500]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

I think it may have to do with "other activities" that he seems quite keen to pursuit.

Hey Spyderman... so you have any insight into what those "other activities" would be?

I was under the impression that Mark was enjoying his WEC experience with Porsche.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by 500

Hey Spyderman... so you have any insight into what those "other activities" would be?

I was under the impression that Mark was enjoying his WEC experience with Porsche.

It's pure speculation on my part. Mark has many hobbies (cycling, running, etc) and is also doing some TV work (commentary). He also loves flying helicopters. Anyway, independently of if he chooses to stop racing (which there is no indication of that happening quite yet), I'm sure he will continue to have ties to Porsche in other capacities.

[Simmi]

I think this off-season could be quite interesting again in the driver market.

We could see Nissan taking another run at drivers, which would be more tempting if they can end the season well. You're also going to have more guys coming out of F1 looking at the series. Hulkenberg could be there for the taking. You've got a guy like Kevin Magnussen who is about to get ousted.

I don't think there are really a lot of weak links in Porsche so it will be interesting to see what they do.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

If true, I wonder who he would come in to substitute. I have often thought about who would go if say Hulkenberg decided to come to the series. I cant see Porsche discarding some of the "aged" members such as Webber, Dumas or Bernhard, so unless one of them does not want to stay for 2016 , I cant see where they would fit in. I suppose there is a possibility that Webber's contract ends next year and that he does not want to continue, but I know nothing about that. Hartley is very quick (occasionally makes mistakes) and is still learning and growing. It would be silly to let him go. Jani is gold. Lieb is as good as any of the others on his day, with the added value of being an engineer. Bernhard is still very fast and for all intents and purposes is the lead driver in #17.
Any thoughts?

I share your interrogations. Difficult to tell where Buemi would fit.

Originally Posted by TF110

Just speculation. The same site thought Beche would be reserve driver for Toyota but it ended up being Kobayashi. If Toyota let him go thatd be foolish.

Speculation is well... just speculation; it may ultimately turn out not to translate into facts. Sorry, just playing "captain obvious" once again

[CTD]

In an interview with a danish news paper, Michael Christiensen explained that he wasn't chosen for the LMP1 seat because of him lacking experience at Le Mans and in WEC.
He therefor got the seat in the 911 GTE to gain this.
This is of course his own words, but it sounds like he is aiming to gain a full season seat in 2016 or 2017, with at least Le Mans in 2016 in the 919.

[Gingers4Justice]

Talking of Mark Webber, since joining Porsche his accent's gone a bit...well....Steve McClaren.

Just watched a video with him explaining the steering wheel of the 919 and his accent's all over the place. It goes from Aussie, to a bit of British English, and I'm sure a German twang is creeping in as well.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by CTD

In an interview with a danish news paper, Michael Christiensen explained that he wasn't chosen for the LMP1 seat because of him lacking experience at Le Mans and in WEC.
He therefor got the seat in the 911 GTE to gain this.
This is of course his own words, but it sounds like he is aiming to gain a full season seat in 2016 or 2017, with at least Le Mans in 2016 in the 919.

The fact Earl Bamber walked out of a Porsche cup car and straight into a P1 kind of flies in the face of what Michael says.

But I'd love to see him in a 919 in the future and I know you would too Mathias.