1 <> 2 move rule - defending your line

[darcym]

After reading threads on complaints about drivers defending and having my own personal views on the matter I wonder and I put it to all drivers, is it time we do something along the lines of agreeing a 1 or 2 times change of the line to defend your position.

In light of some of the accidents and countroversy of late, would it be wise to try to agree this amongst ourselves as drivers.

Its clear to me that this is out side the scope of the marshalls, and weaving does not appear to be acted on by circuit orginisers, so is the best way forward to make this agreement amongst our selves.

Just really thought to start a discussion.

[StephenRae]

My interpretation of the 'rule' is,after a corner you can move once, stay there and then if the following car is not in your way, take the racing line for the next corner. I suppose it is still acceptable to move once then move straight away back to the racing line but then you have to stay there, otherwise it will be deemed as weaving...which it is!

[carsten.meurer]

we had this in the weaving thread, and i honestly do not think that
you will get a common view on this, as opinion vary widely.

what all seemed to agree at, is that you should not deliberately
endanger other drivers, or theire material beyond tolerated levels
in the category.

its a case of common sense and some gentlement agreement being
needed between racers.
no rule can cover it all !
it seemed in the thread that there are even different manners applied
at differeent ends of the grid.

you put a rule up, and there will be more complaints about breaches
realy or imagined than you can handle...

we have enough rules already - actually too many !

if someone behaves out of the accepted, tell him off, or send him home !

racing would be an even poorer sport than it has become already if you
wanted a rule for everything !
one of the few things i am still allowed to choose myself is my racing line !
even if it goes zig zag down the straight ! i'd like it to stay like this !

[Woolley]

Couldn't agree less. From the outside, I want to see the position protected by skill, not hooliganism, and any half-talented driver can weave to intimidate the following driver. It's dumb anyway, because it means there's no way you can catch the guy in front which is supposed to be half the point?

My view is the rule should be that if the car behind is not alongside in any way, you may move to the inside for the next corner as long as doing so doesn't require the other driver to take avoiding action. In other words, you can't wait until he's just about to come through and then change line to force him to brake.

Or to sum up, get out of the corner cleanly in front, then you can move over and make him go the long way around at the next corner. Forcing another driver to swerve or brake is equivalent to a professional foul in football.

[carsten.meurer]

at least we agree to disagree completely ! thats a start...

i am withh you that extensive change of line slowes you down !
so if the guy in front does it, you should be able to read his line and take advantage !
i never got stuck behind someone weaving, but was forced behind by clever,
skillfull driving quite often.

so maybe we agree that only a driver of lesser skill will use this tactic.

why does it need to be regulated by a rule then ?

the loss in speed, momentum should be enough punishment !
if you can't pass, its not because of weaving, its because you went for
what you were presented.

and as long as i am in front, if only half, and am on a not too obscure line,
i rely on the driver just not on the same hight to brake !
so with turning in i basically forced him to brake ! is that what you call a
foul ?

i have visited few race meetings in the past 2 years, but i recognized that
a lot of series have turned from races to sissy parades.
for 20 year behind the wheel, and longer as a observer, i never felt the
need for driving behaviour to be regulated.
if i feel someone is off the mark, i will sort it myself. no need for rules...

but maybe driving standarts, and the respect for the sport have gone to a
lower level, the same way the saftey level has risen.

doubt you will see much weaving in phoenix parc...

[itsonlyme]

Originally Posted by carsten.meurer

so maybe we agree that only a driver of lesser skill will use this tactic.

I disagree..............
I have noticed from the pit wall, watching out on track and from TV footage for NWFF1600 that some drivers near the front and few AT the front use this tactic but complain when it backfires and they end up spinning out!

Not only is it dangerous, it spoils the race and gives the drivers guilty of 'weaving and blocking' a bad name.

IMHO deliberatly weaving is just as bad as having a bent engine, its CHEATING

[carsten.meurer]

so you think that everyone on the front of the field has skill ?

maybe you wanna come over here... and see different.

no need for weaving here ! you just put in a big engine and drive
up and away...

somehow you had a solution included in your post:
whgen it comes round and causes them to spin off, they might think about doing it a second time !
also spinning out when getting it in return does not show too much skill in my book...

[diz]

The answer is on your bookshelf (unless you have passed your Blue Book - unread - to a Marshall). Page 129, 15.4,15.4.2.

15.4 During a race or practice, a car alone on the track may use the full width of the track. However, as soon as it is caught up by a car which is either temporarily or constantly faster, the driver shall give the other vehicle the right of way.

15.4.2 Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers such as premature direction changes on the straight, crowding of cars towards the inside or the outside of the curve or any other abnormal change of direction, are strictly prohibited and will be subject to penalties ranging from a fine to exclusion from the race. The repitition of such driving, even involuntary, may result in exclusion.

This thread - and other similar ones - is about one or two moves and the one move rule being acceptable.
I must ask "what one move rule?" I've never been able to find this alleged rule.
The MSA regs quoted above are clear in stating that you don't make the 'one move'.
IMHO if a driver is capable of getting ahead of you, he / she should be allowed to do so in safety. If you are good / quick enough, you can always get them back later in the race.
Call me old fashioned, but isn't this what motor racing is all about?

[Walshy]

Originally Posted by diz

Call me old fashioned, but isn't this what motor racing is all about?

Your old fashioned........

[StephenRae]

I think the bikers have got it right...no mirrors...if you can't see who may be behind you, there is no point in driving defensively and the guy behind would have to be sure his next move was decisive...it works for me

[Triple J Motorsport]

Originally Posted by StephenRae

I think the bikers have got it right...no mirrors...if you can't see who may be behind you, there is no point in driving defensively and the guy behind would have to be sure his next move was decisive...it works for me

And karting

[JustinDawkins]

I think it is largely pretty well respected everywhere. In the heat of the moment it is always easy for the driver ahead to get carried away protecting his position, and when they go it usually gets unnoticed by the stewards - so its really down to a gentlemen's agreement in some ways. Equally people seem to loose count in the heat of the moment (both parties), I seem to remember Gavin Wills having a go at me in at the '04 WHT because he thought I had used a bit more road than I should!!!!

That said at Combe this rule rarely seems to be respected and anything seems to go - probably to the detriment of its reputation.

[darcym]

seeing as thats where I race mostly Justin, I would agree. Other championships I've raced in or tacks I would pretty much agree that its fair and agreed, and as you say the heat of the moment its easy to get lost in how the pass/defend went. However as you said, this is not respected in some situations and not picked up at all by the stewards at all if it is broken.

There must be something that can be done about this or a better way to enfoce it.

[Séamas M.]

Originally Posted by Walshy

Your old fashioned........

He's also right!!