F1 at Brands Hatch. The end?

[TwoSheds]

Brands Hatch now cannot be considered for future TGP dates without considerable cost being spent on the circuit.


We are already working hard to establish a stable calendar offering for 2003 and would welcome the views of any competitors on circuits, travel distances, timings, number of races and any feelings you have that would help us produce an entertaining season next year.

Taken from the news section of the TGP web site at http://www.tgp-f1.com/files/corepage.htm .

I hope this isn't the end of F1 at BH. Does anyone know how much work is needed to get the required FIA license?

[Bodysnatcher]

Tim, saying that this is the end of F1 at Brands is maybe reading between the lines too much. There's still the Indy circuit after all.
The problem lies with the GP loop.
It seems that (slightly dilapidated) as it is, it's still suitable for the majority of national class races, but when it comes to an FIA sanctioned event, then the FIA have to have certified the track.
It does not have to be up to full current F1 spec I believe, but of a slightly lower grade. Without that licence I would guess no FIA sportscars, European touring cars, stuff like that.
WSB seems to be different kettle of fish, but since Octagon own and promote Superbikes....
Still, I have worries that Octagon will have to plough all their resources into improving Silverstone (to the detriment of their other circuits)in order to retain the GP and recoup the massive payment given away to bernie for F1 rights.

[neilwaynesmith]

Originally posted by Bodysnatcher
Still, I have worries that Octagon will have to plough all their resources into improving Silverstone (to the detriment of their other circuits)in order to retain the GP and recoup the massive payment given away to bernie for F1 rights.

Are you truly surprised???:confused:

[TwoSheds]

Originally posted by TwoSheds
Brands Hatch now cannot be considered for future TGP dates without considerable cost being spent on the circuit.

Originally posted by Bodysnatcher
Tim, saying that this is the end of F1 at Brands is maybe reading between the lines too much. There's still the Indy circuit after all.

But from their web site and my quote they are talking about Brands Hatch as a whole and not differentiating between the Indy and GP circuits. I hope you're right though as the race the put on using the Indy circuit was just fine.

[Andrew Kitson]

Originally posted by TwoSheds


I hope this isn't the end of F1 at BH. Does anyone know how much work is needed to get the required FIA license?

Is it not the section of track between Hawthorne's and Clearways? I thought they had to reprofile the circuit away from the village and build an earth bank as a sound barrier on the existing straight between Stirling's and Clearways. All because of only one protester in the village because of noise.
I know Snett has major problems too due to a troublesome protester in Attleborough ( 4 miles away!)
Also heard rumours that Octagon will build concrete spectator terracing at Russell chicane at Snett from the GP proceeds.

[Peter Scillitoe]

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson

Is it not the section of track between Hawthorne's and Clearways? I thought they had to reprofile the circuit away from the village and build an earth bank as a sound barrier on the existing straight between Stirling's and Clearways. All because of only one protester in the village because of noise.

Andrew, that was correct, but it all changed when they submitted their plan to rebuild the entire circuit for the British GP. The 'one protester' was very quickly bought out and is no longer a problem. West Kingsdown resident Rod Birley is better placed than me to comment on the views of the local residents, but the impression is that generally they support the circuit (including the GP loop), and Octagon to their credit have taken steps 'to press the flesh' with the locals on a regular basis.

That said, my fear as I have posted before, is that this is the end of the GP circuit - at least for big time motor racing. Probably the same for clubbies as well as the hire costs are cosmic.

That airfield in Northampton is bleeding one of the world's remaining great road course dry. Now you know why I never ever go near the place, not as a spectator, a marshal or a senior official.

[Andrew Kitson]

In all my years of watching motor racing - the electric atmosphere of the British GP at the Brands 'bowl' is pretty high on my list of favourite memories. The days when they would disappear out of sight under the bridge at South bank and then blast back into view under the other bridge on the approach to clearways - magic. Silverstone has a lot of good points but will never ever reach the atmosphere levels of those fantastic Brands GPs.
I remember when the BRDC announced that Silverstone would be greatly improved by having a twistier course and gradient changes caused by 'huge' earth moving works at the Vale and Bridge. Some wag at Brands put out a press release stating that work would soon start at Brands in removing trees and flattening the hills to make it flat and featureless!
If only one could turn back the clock...

[Rod Birley]

Plans were put in at the beginning of the year and (surprise,surprise) quickly approved by the local council. I was at the meeting. By mid March it became obvious that things had been put on hold.

[Stephen Green]

New pits and media centre at Silverstone and mounting losses at Octagon will almost certaily put the brakes on any more spending in the short term. You will hate me for saying this, but when Nicola ran the place money was spent on the circuit and facilities and it made money! I for one would welcome her back with open arms as I firmly believe she could turn Brands back into the sort of circuit it was and ought to be!

[Tony_J]

Stephen, from what I can remember dear Nicola sucked money out of the other Brands Hatch Leisure circuits, notably Oulton Park, to provide the investment at Brands. Perhaps her biggest white elephant was the John Foulston centre at Clearways. During her time in office the spectator facilities deteriorated quite rapidly, the toilets became disgusting cess pits and the Kentegan took on that very shabby air Her attitude to marshals was disgusting, I can't remember the quote but it was something along the lines of 5 minute heroes. No I'm sorry Stephen I think that Brands was well shut of her [at a price], but I do agree that the airfield has soaked up a disprortionate amount of Octogons funds and investment.

[Stephen Green]

Tony, I beg to differ. Under Nicola's reign trhe new grandstand at Paddock Hill Bend was built. The Foulston Centre is used for many occasions outside of motor racing (weddings/parties etc) as well as providing decent office space for the staff. There were new tolets built near the main entrance along with a fast food outlet. The pit garages and control tower were all knocked down and rebuilt. The entire track and outer paddock were re-surfaced. I agree that the Atlantic Suite was knocked down but that was because it never had planning permission and had they not taken it down the local authority would have done so for her.

All things considered, she did more for Brands Hatch in her time there than her predecessors had done in many years.

[Peter Scillitoe]

Originally posted by Rod Birley
Plans were put in at the beginning of the year and (surprise,surprise) quickly approved by the local council. I was at the meeting. By mid March it became obvious that things had been put on hold.

Rod (and others)

Is there anything we can do about this? Some named senior individual at Octagon we could lobby, and or fire questions at? I am not sure who the headman is now that Rob Bain has departed. Does anybody else feel that maybe we should start a campaign?

[Tony_J]

I remember the new pit complex being opened and used in anger for the 1st time for a TOCA meeting. The end garages were flooded to a depth of about 15"-18" [the tide mark is probably still there]. The Rouse cars only avoided being flooded because they were on high lift jacks. Cars in other garages weren't so lucky. The problem? Posh design minimal thought to practicalities and no good at all for F1. As far as the Foulston Centre is concerned. Nice office accommodation, but perhaps the money would have been better spent on the track and spectator facilities first. How are the 'facilities' on the South Bank these days. Last time I was there they were to be avoided at all costs?

[Stephen Green]

Tony, there are now 'permanent' portable loos at Druids which are always kept in good condition. As for the flooding of the garages, I believe quite a bit of work was carried out to aleviate that particular problem.

Peter, it's probably Mike DeBono for the time being but I'm not sure whether he is based at Brands or Silverstone now. You could always ring Robin Murphy and ask him who is the right person for us to write to.

[Rod Birley]

Talking about track licence etc,who noticed the FIA flag still flying at Brands today.

[QuickBrownFox]

Didn't notice which flag was flying this time Rod, but was very amused by the flag situation at the Ferarri festival, having a good view from post 8 (Cooper Straight). The motorcycle flag from the previous week was still flying, so they decided to change it. It took 2 people to change the flag; one standing on the safety railings at the top of the race control tower actually doing the changing, the other, I presume was ready to grab the other if he fell!

[Peter Scillitoe]

Originally posted by Stephen Green
Peter, it's probably Mike DeBono for the time being but I'm not sure whether he is based at Brands or Silverstone now. You could always ring Robin Murphy and ask him who is the right person for us to write to.

That's what I feared. Might as well give up now

[TwoSheds]

Originally posted by Rod Birley
Talking about track licence etc,who noticed the FIA flag still flying at Brands today.

And the Ferrari flag...

Comments were made on both Saturday and Sunday. Judging by QBFs description of how they change the flags I guess no one will do it now without danger money.

[Tony_J]

Going back to one of the original points made in this thread about 'is this the end of F1 at Brands'. If Bernie E reckoned that the money spent on Silverstone had only created something akin to a market fair how much would it take to bring Brands up to spec and who would foot the bill?

[chrisgr31]

I don't know how much it would cost to bring Brands up to scratch, however being a selfish whatsit its a lot nearer home, amd I much prefer the circuit!

Whilst continued improvements to safety are of course a good thing it does beg the question of how much longer improvements can be made to tracks with increased run off areas etc, when enviromental concerns are taken into account.

It would be interesting though to know how much money Octagon make from their various circuits, information that will presumably be in the accounts.

On another note the problem of recruiting Marshalls is probably just a sympton of modern society. All the voluntary groups I know struggle to attract members and participants.

Not that I can really speak as I continue to contemplate marshalling trying to decide if I can commit the time.

[paulzinho]

They better not emasculate the circuit, i'd rather it stay as it is (as one of the worlds best circuits) than have some poxy FIA event on a Mickey Mouse circuit. Brands is good, you can still get reasonably close to the cars in the right places.

As for the end of the GP loop, I would've thought the WSBK would take care of that and hopefully the BTCC, F3 and GT's will continue to use it for the Superweekenders.

As for the Foulstons, never liked them. My dad had alot of respect from John Webb though.

[neilwaynesmith]

Given Octagons current financial situation, their apparent attitude to all else except Silverstone and the current shortfall in housing stock.......

I'm not joking, there are precedents.

[Tony_J]

Neil, I think we've been there before. Weren't the Foulston's thinking of selling it off for industrial warehousing or some such thing? Given its proximity to the motorway network its a mega value piece of real estate and has got to be worth more than as a racing circuit. If Octogons core businesses are suffering and BE wants more spent on Silverstone, then who knows!
PS. Anyone heard the rumour [and I stress rumour] that Rockinghams finances may be a bit shaky?

[chrisgr31]

Originally posted by Tony_J

PS. Anyone heard the rumour [and I stress rumour] that Rockinghams finances may be a bit shaky?

Well I read somewhere today that the published accounts for CART showed that Rockingham were paying a reduced fee for hosting the race, and of course CART have had to take on extra costs following the cancellation of the German round.

Other incidental evidence may be Rockinghams apparent desperation to sell tickets for the CART race. In the last week I have had two emails promoting the race and 2 or 3 snail mail mailshots.

However if they looked back to last year they will find the reason I am not going this year. Having queued for 6 hours to get into the circuit meaning thatI would have missed the race had it not been delayed, I am not willing to risk that again especially as I have to be back home for an event by 6pm.

Something tells me they may be strugglingto sell tickets.

[neilwaynesmith]

I hope that all the worries are unfounded, we need a fresh circuit and attitude.

One thing amuses me, I see that next years calendar has the Champ Cars moved to the May Bank Holiday. The reasons given were twofold:
1: To have the Monday as a fall-back day in case of inclement weather.
2: To hopefully stand a better chance of running in longer hours and better weather.

I remember not so long ago watching TVR Tuscans trying to qualify in sleet on May Bank Holiday.