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Old 5 Jan 2018, 11:16 (Ref:3790790)   #1001
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I don't mind giving new young drivers the benefit of the doubt, but to have a non junior /feeder team with with this driver pairing is frankly awful to see. Even Sauber has a more convincing driver pairing.

Stroll desperately needs an old hand alongside him IMO. He performed OK at times last season, but was struggling badly even at the end of the season in Brazil and other races. Shame they could not have picked up Sainz or even Wehrlein, or even poached Perez.
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Old 5 Jan 2018, 12:24 (Ref:3790796)   #1002
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greentrumpet should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridgreentrumpet should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Sad, but perhaps Rob Smedley can drive the car from the pits like he used to.
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Old 5 Jan 2018, 12:32 (Ref:3790799)   #1003
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Force India reserve and test driver...

http://www.forceindiaf1.com/news/nic...nd-test-driver
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Old 5 Jan 2018, 12:52 (Ref:3790806)   #1004
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Stroll desperately needs an old hand alongside him IMO. He performed OK at times last season, but was struggling badly even at the end of the season in Brazil and other races. Shame they could not have picked up Sainz or even Wehrlein, or even poached Perez.
Why would Sainz or Perez (or anyone with options) even consider going to Williams at the moment? Pretty much everywhere else looks a better option.
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Old 5 Jan 2018, 13:02 (Ref:3790808)   #1005
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Graz should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridGraz should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridGraz should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridGraz should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
See how Sirotkin goes before slaughtering him. I doubt the decision between him and Kubica was purely performance, the budget of course came into it.

Sirotkin needs to destroy Stroll though. Stroll was miles off Massa in terms of pace over the course of the season and with respect, Massa was hardly top drawer at this stage. Stroll's performance in Abu Dhabi was frankly embarrassing - when he should have made leaps during the year, it was as at least as bad as his first races. That performance was right up there with the likes of any of the joke pay drivers over the years.

If Stroll does not up his game seriously in 2018, I hope they have the conviction to say to Stroll Sr., we're done. Otherwise, they are existing just to run Stroll and settle for mediocrity.

I also don't think the Williams was as poor a car as claimed during 2017 - Stroll got some results out of it even when it was clear on the onboards he was overdriving and braking way too early when other cars were around him (like he was a bit scared) so he wasn't extracting every last tenth out of it. Massa was up and down and well past his best.
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Old 5 Jan 2018, 14:17 (Ref:3790828)   #1006
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The problem was Sirotkin was hot property a few seasons, then just seemed to be forgotten about. Now he's back again. I'll see how he goes before passing on any further comment however, as he could do well for them. Williams are not gone yet
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Old 5 Jan 2018, 17:29 (Ref:3790882)   #1007
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The deal was done just before Christmas, apparently. Williams waiting for the cheque to clear before making an official announcement, which is expected to be in the coming days.


Flavio Briatore, a close friend to Kubica and Rosberg, said the following on Speed Week a few days ago.

Briatore: "I am very sorry that Kubica did not manage to convince Williams. I have talked to Nico Rosberg several times. I know that everything has been tried, but the Russian has an enormous budget. We’re talking about twenty million here. Kubica could muster between seven and ten million."

"I’m very sorry about that. I do not even know who that Russian is. If Robert had returned to Grand Prix racing, it would have been a success for Formula 1. I find it very strange of the Formula 1 leadership that they have not given Robert a helping hand."



R.I.P. Williams F1 Team.
crazy to think that Kubica's 7-10 mil is not near close enough to secure a pay ride anymore!!!

despite Maldonado's win in 2012, i would think, on paper anyways, Stroll and Sirotkin is a more promising pairing at the outset then was the Maldonado and Senna pairing heading into the 2012 season. rather its not the worst pay driver line up i have seen.

hard to write off Williams just yet imo...i feel like regardless of their driving paring they are banking on the reliability and power of the Merc engine to keep them squarely in 5th place on the constructors table.

given the 2018 engine allotment rules plus the money coming in from their pay drivers, this may be a reasonable risk to take.
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Old 5 Jan 2018, 20:25 (Ref:3790919)   #1008
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Senna maybe but Maldonado was massively quicker than Stroll or likely Sir Otkin
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Old 6 Jan 2018, 01:56 (Ref:3790948)   #1009
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I doubt the decision between him and Kubica was purely performance, the budget of course came into it.
See below...





The demise of Williams as a Formula 1 "racing" team. Who's fault is it? Williams, or FOM?

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/m...hange-williams
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Old 6 Jan 2018, 05:02 (Ref:3790959)   #1010
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The delay of an official announcement from Williams is a little concerning. The talk is that Williams are waiting for a Russian briefcase (or two) to arrive at Grove HQ. Or, 'finalising contract details' as so put by various media sources.

Why the concern? Sirotkin's Russian supplied briefcases have failed to show up on more than one occasion during his time in F1. And the ones that have shown up, are apparently only half full at times.

Anyone remember the Russian rescue deal for Sauber in 2013? It was announced by Sauber mid 2013 that Russian backers will partner with Sauber, and as part of that deal, Sirotkin would get FP1 sessions in the second half of 2013, and a full-time drivers seat for 2014. The first lot of briefcases failed to show up, and so Sirotkin did not get any FP1 sessions with Sauber in 2013. He was still in the running for a full-time seat in 2014 however. Fast forward to February 2014, and no briefcase showed up in time at Hinwil, so lost his promised full-time seat, and was relegated to Sauber's test driver for 2014. But he had just enough funds for his one and only FP1 outing at the 2014 Russian GP.

Towards the end of 2014, rumours had it that Sirotkin was in negotiations with Force India for a reserve/test driver role for 2015. In January of 2015 it was reported that Force India had an "agreement in principle" with Sirotkin, pending payment conditions were met prior to the first test at Jerez on February 1. Well.. the briefcase did not arrive in time, and Force India withdrew from the first test of 2015 as a result of lack of funds. They were depending on Sirotkin's briefcase to conduct the test. Talks regarding Sirotkin's role at Force India didn't progress any further, and Sirotkin was out of the picture at FI, and out of F1 for 2015.

In April of 2016, just prior to the Russian GP, Renault F1 announced Sirotkin as their test driver with a "long-term development plan". The deal (although not officially confirmed), was rumoured to be for 6 FP1 outings during the 2016 season. Again, the Russian briefcases failed to arrive in time, and Sirotkin only got 2 FP1 outings (Russia and Brazil). He also drove during the in-season test at Silverstone.

In 2017 Sirotkin remained with Renault and they announced that he had been promoted to "third and reserve driver with an enhanced role" with the team. Maybe some of the payment conditions were met and a briefcase finally arrived at Enstone (??). But Sirotkin only did 4 FP1 sessions last year (hard to call that an "enhanced" role). Renault and Sirotkin parted ways in September 2017.

With a history of non-payments, or late payments, Sirotkin is a very risky choice for Williams, in more ways than one. Let's hope Williams have performed their due diligence, and don't end up in a worse financial situation than they're already in. The Russian briefcases supporting Sirotkin are reported to be "dirty" money with Putin's fingerprints all over it. That in itself, is another issue altogether.
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Old 6 Jan 2018, 17:23 (Ref:3791018)   #1011
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just to put that into perspective (not disagree), the majority of drivers don’t pay their invoices on time pre-f1
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Old 7 Jan 2018, 01:49 (Ref:3791110)   #1012
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And the majority of entrants taking pay driver money never deliver competitive equipment.

Here is a question, what is the highest position a pay driver has ever achieved as a pay driver in the WDC?
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Old 7 Jan 2018, 09:09 (Ref:3791149)   #1013
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Originally Posted by F1Guy View Post
The delay of an official announcement from Williams is a little concerning. The talk is that Williams are waiting for a Russian briefcase (or two) to arrive at Grove HQ. Or, 'finalising contract details' as so put by various media sources.

Why the concern? Sirotkin's Russian supplied briefcases have failed to show up on more than one occasion during his time in F1. And the ones that have shown up, are apparently only half full at times.

Anyone remember the Russian rescue deal for Sauber in 2013? It was announced by Sauber mid 2013 that Russian backers will partner with Sauber, and as part of that deal, Sirotkin would get FP1 sessions in the second half of 2013, and a full-time drivers seat for 2014. The first lot of briefcases failed to show up, and so Sirotkin did not get any FP1 sessions with Sauber in 2013. He was still in the running for a full-time seat in 2014 however. Fast forward to February 2014, and no briefcase showed up in time at Hinwil, so lost his promised full-time seat, and was relegated to Sauber's test driver for 2014. But he had just enough funds for his one and only FP1 outing at the 2014 Russian GP.

Towards the end of 2014, rumours had it that Sirotkin was in negotiations with Force India for a reserve/test driver role for 2015. In January of 2015 it was reported that Force India had an "agreement in principle" with Sirotkin, pending payment conditions were met prior to the first test at Jerez on February 1. Well.. the briefcase did not arrive in time, and Force India withdrew from the first test of 2015 as a result of lack of funds. They were depending on Sirotkin's briefcase to conduct the test. Talks regarding Sirotkin's role at Force India didn't progress any further, and Sirotkin was out of the picture at FI, and out of F1 for 2015.

In April of 2016, just prior to the Russian GP, Renault F1 announced Sirotkin as their test driver with a "long-term development plan". The deal (although not officially confirmed), was rumoured to be for 6 FP1 outings during the 2016 season. Again, the Russian briefcases failed to arrive in time, and Sirotkin only got 2 FP1 outings (Russia and Brazil). He also drove during the in-season test at Silverstone.

In 2017 Sirotkin remained with Renault and they announced that he had been promoted to "third and reserve driver with an enhanced role" with the team. Maybe some of the payment conditions were met and a briefcase finally arrived at Enstone (??). But Sirotkin only did 4 FP1 sessions last year (hard to call that an "enhanced" role). Renault and Sirotkin parted ways in September 2017.

With a history of non-payments, or late payments, Sirotkin is a very risky choice for Williams, in more ways than one. Let's hope Williams have performed their due diligence, and don't end up in a worse financial situation than they're already in. The Russian briefcases supporting Sirotkin are reported to be "dirty" money with Putin's fingerprints all over it. That in itself, is another issue altogether.
he has a serious history of non payment for sure. but the sauber deal fell through during and because of the russian invassion of ukraine, which unless im mistaken have normalized since. back then there were eu and us sanctions on his main sponsors and travel bans on smp bank leaders, among them his family members. eu sanctions were lifted since. having said that, williams went from after the season to before xmas announcement, and its safe to say that its not analyzing kubicas test data that takes so long something is largely fishy again around the dude.
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Old 7 Jan 2018, 09:51 (Ref:3791155)   #1014
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just to put that into perspective (not disagree), the majority of drivers don’t pay their invoices on time pre-f1
...with the hope of a generous settlement discount no doubt
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Old 7 Jan 2018, 11:04 (Ref:3791160)   #1015
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...with the hope of a generous settlement discount no doubt
Worked for Niki Lauda when he joined Ferrari.... so impressed with him was Enzo, they paid his outstanding BRM rent a drive monies as part of his retainer back in 1974.
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Old 8 Jan 2018, 19:50 (Ref:3791434)   #1016
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And the majority of entrants taking pay driver money never deliver competitive equipment.

Here is a question, what is the highest position a pay driver has ever achieved as a pay driver in the WDC?
From recent times hou would probably be looking at Checo or Maldonado the year he won in Spain.

Going back further I'd be tempted to suggest Schumacher in '91. Merc and ONS paid Jordan and then Flav to get him in.
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Old 8 Jan 2018, 22:54 (Ref:3791458)   #1017
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You can pretty much technically tag every driver currently on the grid, and in the past as a "pay driver". You need money behind you to make it into F1. No money to pay, no test time, no drive. Simples.

When a new to the grid "pay driver" performs well, and makes a good impression, the pay driver tag goes almost unnoticed. He (yes, as in a male) gets noticed for his talent and skills and the pay driver status is all but forgotten. Specially if he is signed on by a better team to race for them. The only exception to that currently is Hamilton, who was signed on to a top team on debut.
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Old 9 Jan 2018, 14:42 (Ref:3791550)   #1018
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Niki Lauda had to use a bank loan to get into F1 quicker and look what happened
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Old 9 Jan 2018, 15:53 (Ref:3791559)   #1019
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Old 9 Jan 2018, 16:31 (Ref:3791569)   #1020
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You can pretty much technically tag every driver currently on the grid, and in the past as a "pay driver". You need money behind you to make it into F1. No money to pay, no test time, no drive. Simples.

When a new to the grid "pay driver" performs well, and makes a good impression, the pay driver tag goes almost unnoticed. He (yes, as in a male) gets noticed for his talent and skills and the pay driver status is all but forgotten. Specially if he is signed on by a better team to race for them. The only exception to that currently is Hamilton, who was signed on to a top team on debut.
We know what the score is these days. But it hasn't always been like that there are always exceptions. Villeneuve and Montoya both got straight into top teams like Hamilton but none of those brought any serious money themselves?

Mansell had no money to buy a drive, he was patroned by Chapman. Chapman or JPS footed his bills.

Herbert had a similar thing with Peter Collins of Benetton (although he would have been signed on merit alone by another team without the 3000 smash) Johnny had very little backing at all. Certainly not enough to buy a ride.

However to add to what I think you were saying, I reckon 2/3 of the Marlboro and Camel drivers wouldn't have had a cat in hells chance 25-30 years ago without getting sponsored in F3, 3000 and then into F1. The Stewart scheme was another good effort at helping talented drivers who would otherwise have struggled to progress.
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Old 9 Jan 2018, 16:51 (Ref:3791575)   #1021
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There aren't as many 'pay drivers' on the grid as you might think - if you look at who's on the grid then you get the following:

Red Bull graduates - Vettel, Verstappen, Ricciardo, Sainz, Gasly, Hartley
Mercedes graduates - Ocon
Mclaren graduates - Hamilton, VanDoorne, Magnussen (could be argued Hamilton is a Mercedes graduate)
Ferrari graduates - LeClerc

That leaves:
Raikkonen
Bottas
Perez
Hulkenburg
Alonso
Grosjean
Ericsson
Stroll
A.N.Other Williams driver

Of those the drivers that bring big budgets are Ericsson, Stroll, Perez and A.N.Other. The others may bring budget but that's not what they're known for.
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Old 10 Jan 2018, 11:14 (Ref:3791692)   #1022
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Niki Lauda had to use a bank loan to get into F1 quicker and look what happened
Yep. And you can also add Schumacher and Alonso to the list of former F1 "pay drivers" who won multiple championships.



As I said in my post before, technically almost every driver on the grid currently is or was a "pay driver" at some stage in their F1 career.

What is, or how do you define a pay driver? To most, a pay driver is someone who brings funds with them to the team they will be driving for. Whether those funds are from a personal, borrowed or a sponsor(s) or other, it is still money for the team because of that particular driver being in that particular team.

For the 2017season, the grid consisted of the following "pay drivers" as defined by above.

Bottas: Mercedes sponsored by Wihuri (a personal sponsor. Wihuri and Kemppi when at Williams)
Raikkonen: Ferrari sponsored by Singha (brand ambassador and personal sponsor)
Perez: Force India sponsored by Telmex, Telcel, Claro, Quaker State motor oils, INTERprotección (personal sponsors also)
Grosjean: Haas F1 sponsored by Richard Mille (brand ambassador and a personal sponsor)
Jolyon Palmer: Renault sponsored by Computacenter (a personal sponsor)
Kvyat: STR sponsored by Acronis (a personal sponsor)
Sainz Jr: STR (and Renault in 2018) sponsored by Estrella Galicia (a personal sponsor also)
Stroll: Williams sponsored by Bombardier and also personal funds (Bombardier a personal sponsor also)
Ericsson: Sauber sponsored by Modo Eyewear (a personal sponsor also. Ericsson also heavily linked with Sauber owners Longbow Finance)

And almost all of the other 2017 drivers not on that list above, were pay drivers at some stage of their career. One recent example is Magnussen when at Renault - the team was sponsored by Jack & Jones. But J&J did not follow Magnussen to Haas. But is still a personal sponsor of K-Mag.
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Old 10 Jan 2018, 11:16 (Ref:3791693)   #1023
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I don't really have the time write an essay, and to go through all the details. So I'll just copy and past an article from someone who did have the time in July of last year on this very subject.


Quote:


Formula 1’s Strange Relationship with 'Pay Drivers'

Once derided as possessing far more money than talent, pay drivers are now ubiquitous in F1 – and some of them are bloody quick. What does this often pejorative term mean in the modern context?

Lance Stroll had plenty to be thankful for when he stood on an F1 podium for the first time at last month's Azerbaijan Grand Prix. The 18-year-old owed a debt of gratitude to his Williams team for producing a fast car, could look back at a few strokes of good fortune that helped him hit the front, and might even have thanked some unknown force for the natural talent that he undeniably possesses.

And then there was his father, the billionaire retail tycoon Lawrence Stroll, who funds Lance's Williams seat and is estimated to have ploughed around $80million into making his son a grand prix driver. Lance was presumably pretty thankful to him, too.

While clearly talented, Stroll walks the paddock with that most unwanted of grand prix tags around his neck: he is a pay driver. And while his maiden podium began the process of changing perceptions, it's going to take time. But what does this (usually pejorative) term mean in the modern F1 context?

BUT FIRST…

Let's begin with a simple explainer: grand prix racing is not cheap. Running a team costs at least €100m per season and you can multiply that several times when it comes to race-winning outfits. While the likes of Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull have vast budgets, the same is not true for smaller teams, who must search for sponsorship and balance the books. Sometimes that sponsorship comes with a driver attached, and sometimes it's not so much sponsorship as a straight-up exchange of capital – hence, the pay driver.

DEFINING THE PAY DRIVER

While the transaction is sometimes straightforward – you give us £10million, we'll let you drive our grand prix car – there are different breeds of pay driver.

Some come with money, but this is more a sweetener than a deal breaker. For example, Sergio Perez takes significant funds to the Force India team, but the Mexican is a talented and experienced driver who has scored seven podiums in F1. He's worth hiring on merit – he's even been linked with a move to Ferrari – but no team is going to turn down an extra few million quid. The same could well turn out to be true of Stroll. He might even win races one day, but his father will probably still be asked to stump up some (albeit less) cash.

Then there are young drivers whose path into F1 is paved by a benefactor – usually a major F1 team who want to blood them in grands prix. During the second half of last season the Manor squad ran Esteban Ocon and Pascal Wehrlein, both Mercedes protégés who the German manufacturer wanted to see in action. You could look at this one as an investment, as Mercedes will hope to one day see a return.

Sometimes money arrives in the wake of an established driver. For example, in 2010 Fernando Alonso was followed to Ferrari by banking giants Santander. But does anyone call him a pay driver? Of course not. Alonso is among the best in the business and gets paid handsomely to race. Still, there's potentially money to be had from hiring a world champion.

Then there are drivers whose presence at a team is based predominantly or solely on their ability to bring money, which can come from a group of backers (Marcus Ericsson), a state-owned oil company (Pastor Maldonado) or family wealth (Stroll), among many other things. They tend only to last a few seasons, because whoever is investing in them eventually questions the merits of ploughing literally tens of millions into running around in 19th, and another moneyed driver promptly arrives to take their place. That's not always the case, however – Maldonado won a race, while Stroll has a podium aged just 18.

And so what most people tend to mean when they say "pay driver" is not simply someone who funds their seat – it's someone who is in F1 based predominantly on their money, not their talent (though, as we'll come to see, even this is a bit messy).

Let's try to simply things. If in doubt, ask yourself whether a driver would be in F1 if every team could afford hire purely on merit and extra funding became irrelevant. For Perez, the answer is yes; for Sauber driver Ericsson, the answer is probably no – though the Swede is far from the worst pay driver to compete in the sport.

A POTTED HISTORY

Pay drivers are the bedrock of motor racing. In the sport's early years, grids were made up of rich amateurs – many of the members of Europe's aristocracy – pounding around in terrifyingly huge machines, pushing the limits of speed and safety. There were "factory drivers" – those hired by manufacturers and paid to race – but even they tended to come from wealthy families, because how else do you get started in such a costly endeavour?

As Formula 1 developed during the sixties and seventies the top drivers became increasingly professional, though the sport also retained a degree of amateurism. The dawn of major sponsorship – particularly from tobacco companies – meant that drivers could emerge from regular families and earn their status purely on merit. Meanwhile, at the other end of the spectrum, there were dozens of wealthy drivers of varying talent who brought money to race. There are far too many to reel off, but the likes of David Purley (son of the LEC Refrigeration founder) and Rupert Keegan (son of a hugely successful airline entrepreneur) are good examples. The odd few even rose to become stars: Niki Lauda took out a bank loan to buy his F1 break and went on to become a three-time world champion (modern pay drivers often cite this when asked about their financial contributions to a team, as if they're on the same planet as Lauda).

For less talented pay drivers of this era, there was no major resentment from fans. After all, they were competing during F1's most dangerous period, when an average of one person each year died during a grand prix weekend. That was the case for Piers Courage, heir to the brewing dynasty of the same name, who perished at the 1970 Dutch Grand Prix. With such a heavy price to pay when things went wrong, drivers were respected merely for strapping themselves into an F1 car. Combined with the sport's continuing amateur element, it meant that pay driver was not a pejorative term, as it is today.

THE GOLDEN AGE OF THE PAY DRIVER

As the sport grew increasingly professional during the eighties and nineties pay drivers became more conspicuous, a trend that accelerated greatly as the millennium approached. This was partly down to grid numbers: in 1991 F1 races had upwards of 30 entries. There were plenty of pay drivers among them – Pedro Chaves, Andrea Chiesa, Paul Belmondo – but they often failed to qualify, and with plenty of seats to go around they were rather less relevant.

But by the tail end of 1996 the grid had shrunk to just 20 entrants. Competition for employment was stiffer, which increased resentment towards those who were taking up a seat purely because they could afford it.

1996 offers a nice case study. Using the 'probably-wouldn't-be-there-without-money' definition, F1's pay driver contingent featured Pedro Diniz at Ligier, Ricardo Rosset in an Arrows, Ukyo Katayama with Tyrrell, and the infamous Giovanni Lavaggi at Pacific.

Diniz, whose money came from his father's retail empire, was a good pay driver: nothing special behind the wheel but competent enough that his presence in the sport was largely accepted. Much the same could be said for Katayama, who came with backing from Japanese cigarette brand Mild Seven. Both had enough about them to score points now and again and rarely annoy the front-runners.

Rosset, who like his compatriot Diniz was funded by his family's businesses, was of a lesser calibre. His junior record was handy enough and he was fairly anonymous in 1996, but in 1998 he endured an absolute nightmare with Tyrrell, failing to qualify for five races. Among these was a truly disastrous effort at Monaco, after which his mechanics switched the first and last letters of his surname on his paddock scooter to spell out "t-osse-r". It was his last year in F1.

And then there was Lavaggi. The Italian came from aristocratic stock and arrived in F1 in 1995, which was about 40 years too late for a driver of his ilk. He was 37 by this stage, roughly 15 years older than a standard F1 rookie and not much closer in terms of pace. During qualifying at Spa he was four seconds shy of teammate Andrea Montermini, who was no Michael Schumacher himself.

During the second half of the 1996 season he joined Minardi, failing to qualify for three out of six races before mercifully departing the sport. He probably did more than anyone to crystallise the pay driver concept. After all, this was a nobleman who was pushing 40, had dreadful junior results, and was driving in Formula 1 solely by dint of his money. You could perhaps argue that no one has been quite as bad since, though the likes of Taki Inoue, Alex Yoong and Gaston Mazzacane might dispute that.

MOVING TOWARDS ACCEPTANCE?

There have been many more pay drivers since 1996, from underwhelming Austrian Patrick Friesacher to part-time DJ Sakon Yamamoto, a Japanese racer who only seemed to appear to buy his seat after the halfway mark of the season.

But while those drivers offered nothing on the circuit, there have been many pay drivers who did. Adrian Sutil, Vitaly Petrov, Pedro de la Rosa - they wouldn't stack up against a Hamilton or Vettel, but all had shown talent and amassed impressive results before reaching F1.

It's now all but impossible to enter F1 without bringing money. The combination of a global recession, the departure of tobacco money and the difficulties faced by major car manufacturers has made it more challenging than ever for teams to operate, with many now needing some form of driver investment. This stretches all the way down the junior formulae, too – casting an eye over the current Formula 2 grid, you'll spot a few sons of multi-millionaires.

But the fact that everyone brings money doesn't mean that there's no talent left in F1, rather that the lines are blurred. When Valtteri Bottas moved from Williams to Mercedes over the winter he took a handful of sponsors with him. Bottas is very talented and has already won a pair of grands prix, but like pretty much everyone else he's being followed around by sponsorship money.

So what do we mean when we refer to pay drivers in 2017, given that about half of the grid fit that description in some form?
The truth is that it has become a selective term. No one mentions Perez bringing money anymore, because the Mexican has proven he belongs in F1. No one cares that Bottas is backed by Wirhuri or that Kevin Magnussen comes with his personal sponsor, Jack & Jones. It might be mentioned initially, but if you perform well over an extended period you can escape the term.

That said, if Perez was to suddenly lose form he might well see the words "pay driver" appear alongside his name. Such is the case for Jolyon Palmer, who won the GP2 title in 2014 and so clearly has something about him. But he also brings money for his seat with Renault, and with his current results not up to much the pay driver term is bandied around pretty liberally. Ditto Marcus Ericsson, who won races in GP2 and took Japan's F3 title, but has never done anything special in F1. Along with Stroll – who is the reigning European F3 champion – these two are the current F1 racers most likely to be written off as pay drivers.

And so this is what a pay driver is in 2017: someone who not only brings money, but also fails to live up to the demands of F1, at least in the eyes of fans. None are comparable with Lavaggi, with Inoue, or even with better pay drivers such as Diniz. They have impressed in junior categories – perhaps even won major championships – and then, as is standard, paid for an F1 seat.

We finish with young Stroll, whose podium in Baku began what will be a long process of shedding the pay driver tag and establishing himself as the deserving occupant of a Formula 1 seat. But a word of warning: while that reputation will take years to establish, a few bad races will leave it in tatters. In the end, you get what you pay for.



Jim Weeks,
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Old 10 Jan 2018, 11:27 (Ref:3791700)   #1024
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That's the thing, while they have been a few pay drivers in recent seasons they are at least competent enough for F1, not like the likes of Inoue, Lavaggi and Deletraz. So the quality is still there
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Old 10 Jan 2018, 11:29 (Ref:3791701)   #1025
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Originally Posted by F1Guy View Post

For the 2017season, the grid consisted of the following "pay drivers" as defined by above.

Bottas: Mercedes sponsored by Wihuri (a personal sponsor. Wihuri and Kemppi when at Williams)
Raikkonen: Ferrari sponsored by Singha (brand ambassador and personal sponsor)
Perez: Force India sponsored by Telmex, Telcel, Claro, Quaker State motor oils, INTERprotección (personal sponsors also)
Grosjean: Haas F1 sponsored by Richard Mille (brand ambassador and a personal sponsor)
Jolyon Palmer: Renault sponsored by Computacenter (a personal sponsor)
Kvyat: STR sponsored by Acronis (a personal sponsor)
Sainz Jr: STR (and Renault in 2018) sponsored by Estrella Galicia (a personal sponsor also)
Stroll: Williams sponsored by Bombardier and also personal funds (Bombardier a personal sponsor also)
Ericsson: Sauber sponsored by Modo Eyewear (a personal sponsor also. Ericsson also heavily linked with Sauber owners Longbow Finance)
Agree that sometimes drivers personal sponsors are putting them in the seat - but at times it is just a coincidence that drivers share sponsors with a car.

In the case of Kvyat - if it was his sponsor (Acronis) that was paying for him to be in the seat I would consider him a pay driver.
But because he was dropped, and the sponsor still remains, I don't see how he can be considered a 'pay' driver in that context.

For the other drivers, which came first - the personal sponsor funding their seat in a car, or the team sponsor extending to back a driver personally also?

For instance - was Button a pay driver at McLaren because of the Santander connection - or did Santander extend their sponsorship to include the driver(s)?
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