Length of race

[delta]

Happy days Pete,happy days

[Peter Mallett]

We need more days like that.

[dtype38]

Agree with Tim and Graham here, the circuit makes a big main difference. Perhaps its the need to have a certain "number of goes" at each corner. So the longer the circuit the longer the race needs to be. Personally I began in karts, so even a 15min race seemed long when I first started in cars! The more I race though, the more I see the merits of longer races. Short races are a bit of a frantic attack where the cars immediately around you define your race. But the longer races need a bit more strategy and sometimes a different approach, for example battling with another car may not gain as many places as tucking in and both of you overtaking slower cars.

So, as with TV burp.... there may be a fight but there's never a winner!

Toffee

[Unit 2 Racing]

As has been said, it's great that we have both long & short race, as a competitor & now as a spectator I like both.
The best race I have ever seen was 1970 BOAC 1000K, I stood in the rain for 7 hours & loved every minute, I have also seen a lot of very good 10 lapers to.

One case that may need looking at that is down to circuit length is HSCC Snetterton meeting.
In 2010 (older circuit) FF2000 had 2 15 min. races both of 12 laps
In 2011 (new 300 circuit) FF2000 had 2 15 min. races one of 6 laps & one of 5 laps.
All the races were just as short (classic F3's only did 7 laps).
It was the first year running on the new 300 circuit. If they were 20 minute races (about 10 laps) they would have to run less races. I don't have the answer, but if the drivers are happy with 5 or 6 lap races thats fine, but seems a bit short to me.

[terence]

Best event ever,not circuit racing but not far off of it, Le Jog,2003. Started driving at 8 AM Saturday,4hours sleep Sunday night in Edinborough ,then start all over again till Tuesday 14:30.Excellent event then,been softened up a bit now though.

[Ben Shuckburgh]

I came to racing cars from years of off-road motorcycle enduros. Might start at 9.00am and finish at 5pm so when I started travelling miles, spending loads and hanging around for a day (or 2) for a 20 minute race it was quite a change!......still love the short ones, but the longer the better for me. I'm just getting in the groove after 20 minutes....

[Cliff Ryan]

I don't see the point in travelling half way across the country for one 15 or 20 minute sprint so always try to enter at least a couple of races at sprint meetings.

I prefer the challenge & team cameraderie of endurance racing and don't subscribe to the theory that longer races are too expensive as the entry fee is only a small part of the overall cost.

But as I said previously, it's only a hobby and each to his own.

[Lancsbreaker]

Hadn't really though of it before but I spent year's rallying before getting too old for it so moving onto the easier roundy-round stuff - and maybe that influences my attitude to longer races.....

Like Mr Bower I've done Le Jog, a couple of times, and although in our case we got a 5-hour break after the first 19 hours, then another 12 hour break at the end of Sunday, we then spent the next 26 hours without more than an hours break.......and it was fantastic! In my International Stage rallying days, I've done individual stages of 30+ miles, taking 30 - 40 minutes to complete - followed immediately by a road section and another 20+ mile stage - and so on, within a maybe 8 or 9 hour rallying day, often longer.

When I came into racing, the idea of spending a whole day, including maybe an overnight stay, for 30 minutes practice and a 40 minute race, seemed really odd.........and apparently these are "endurance races!

[Rudernst]

I dont like 15 minutes the way the AMOC used to do. Especially round a longer track such as Oulton Park in Pre War this gave very few laps.

On the other hand 25 minutes in a 3 litre F1 (Grand Prix Masters) really takes it out You. I had to pace myself at first until I got used to it after a few races.

I have heard the Historic Group C is even tougher, the races are longer, and there are the added g forces from the ground effect.

On the other hand, 20 minutes in a Historic Formula Junior demand concentration but not much stamina as the cars slide so much with relatively little grip.

Classic F3 is good für 1,8 g and takes a little bit of getting used to.

A well made seat always makes life easier, in any type of car

Just my to bits worth....

Rudolf

[Derwent Motorsp]

Organisers will tell you that if you have longer races, the whole day will offer more track time to drivers as there are fewer gaps between races. In thoeory this offers better value.
The MGCC have gone for 50 minute races at the one day events for their version of GTS rather than a double header of 2 x 30 minutes. I am not sure if I am up for the extra 20 minutes either fitrness or concentration wise.
For spectators (if there are any) shorter racers make better viewing. Another issue is on long tracks like Silverstone GP the cars don't come round that often!

[Cliff Ryan]

I don't regard the 30 or 40 minute races as endurance races, I was referring to the 360 and other such races with multiple pit stops and driver changes.

The 30 or 40 minute races can easily be done by a single driver, or costs can be shared between two drivers who may prefer the equivalent of two 20 minute races.

The important thing is we have a choice & what is right for some is not right for others.

[Al Weyman]

I wont be doing any 40 minute races its simply not viable, all this track time thing everyone seems to think is the be all and end all have you thought about the amount of fuel used at £1.40 a litre? The whole thing is simply getting out of hand cost wise now. I do it for the weekend away and being part of the racing if i am honest and how much track time I get is largely irrellevant and I also start to get bored and tired after 15 minutes and find myself willing the flag to drop.

[zefarelly]

£1.40? you should use proper petrol Al, you'll go faster and it won't melt your engine, its a snip at double the price!

[Peter Mallett]

Don't wind him up! Not forgetting that if you actually don't enter you don't have to spend all that fuel getting to the circuit. A win/win really.

[johngee]

Originally Posted by Derwent Motorsp

Organisers will tell you that if you have longer races, the whole day will offer more track time to drivers as there are fewer gaps between races. In thoeory this offers better value.

Not just in theory . Circuit hire is the biggest (and fixed) cost and the more 'downtime' between races, you can avoid, the better value for money you can offer.
In other words, the fewer, longer races you can pack into the day, the better the value for your customers in terms of track time per pound, always provided of course, that's what they want. Not all do

[SAMD]

Originally Posted by johngee

Not just in theory . Circuit hire is the biggest (and fixed) cost and the more 'downtime' between races, you can avoid, the better value for money you can offer.
In other words, the fewer, longer races you can pack into the day, the better the value for your customers in terms of track time per pound, always provided of course, that's what they want. Not all do

I can understand that, I think the question becomes, (in this context) which is percieved to be better value 2 X 10 minute races or 1 X 40 minute race in a one make series. I would think the 2 X 10 mins are the better value, even if there is less track time.
But as they say, horses for courses and all that.

[johngee]

Originally Posted by SAMD

I can understand that, I think the question becomes, (in this context) which is percieved to be better value 2 X 10 minute races or 1 X 40 minute race in a one make series. I would think the 2 X 10 mins are the better value, even if there is less track time.
But as they say, horses for courses and all that.

A fair point and well made As an organiser, it offends me to see 'under used' track time but, in all fairness, I'm not the one sitting in the car!
Perhaps getting more 'bang for your buck' is not, for some people, the overriding consideration and there are other factors to consider. I suppose it's inevitable that, as a club dedicated to endurance racing, we tend to think that 'track time per pound' is one of the main criteria by which we're judged.

[delta]

Here we go again,I remember way back when if there was spare time at a race meeting we would all put a tenner in a hat and have a Libre race.Happy days.

[Peter Mallett]

Sam, what relevance has a one make series to the debate? Not a criticism, I just don't see the relevance.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Derwent Motorsp

For spectators (if there are any) shorter racers make better viewing. Another issue is on long tracks like Silverstone GP the cars don't come round that often!

Seeing as I'm paying the spectators can do what they like. One of the most fun races I had was at Silverstone on the old historic GP circuit. It was a closed event (no spectators), 45 mins. I think I finished first in class, but that's not the point. I spent the entire race dicing with another Capri, a Chevy Camaro and a Sunbeam Tiger, all of which were running Toyo's and I was on the harder Dunlops. Absolutely stonking fun. I recall at one point the other Capri carved across my bow and grazed my front bumper, it was that close and we were going into Becketts at the time so pretty much flat out.

Originally Posted by delta

Here we go again,I remember way back when if there was spare time at a race meeting we would all put a tenner in a hat and have a Libre race.Happy days.

Ah but fuel was only thruppence ha'penny per pint and you could do two events (one at Brands and the other at Castle Comnbe) and get a fish n'chip supper afterwards for just £15.50:

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

£1.40? you should use proper petrol Al, you'll go faster and it won't melt your engine, its a snip at double the price!

I wont be melting pistons dont worry, 38 degrees advance and just under 11 to 1 compression with a stonking roller cam and Tesco's finest and had no problems in that area since.