Multi-class Sportscar Racing

[jasonjessica09]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

P-2, since it's inception was the defacto pro/am prototype class (until P-1 went away in/for the ALMS .... TUSC) with a few exceptions.








L.P.

LMP2 as we know it today started in 2011. Before that it was factory driven through Porsche, Acura, and Mazda efforts. Although for the purposes of the discussion we are talking class structure ideas from 2016 onwards. 2015 looks to be the set now.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by jasonjessica09

LMP2 as we know it today started in 2011. Before that it was factory driven through Porsche, Acura, and Mazda efforts. Although for the purposes of the discussion we are talking class structure ideas from 2016 onwards. 2015 looks to be the set now.

No, P-1 & P-2 started in 2004. Prior to that it was LMP 900 & LMP 675 which were two seperate formulas that raced against each other for the overall win. The Spyder vs. ARX was the exception that I hinted at. The loop hole was closed by the ACO. When LMP900 and LMP675 were changed to P-1/P-2 the P-2s no longer were designed to be overall winners, without the P-1s flubbing it. The P-1s were Werks cars and the top flight privateers, the rest of the privateers raced in P-2 making it the DEFACTO pro/am class. The old timers around here know that 'the spirit of the rules' were such, until Porsche exploited the loophole, then the ACO closed it shortly there after. The Spyders then faded away.....







L.P.

[jasonjessica09]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

No, P-1 & P-2 started in 2004. Prior to that it was LMP 900 & LMP 675 which were two seperate formulas that raced against each other for the overall win. The Spyder vs. ARX was the exception that I hinted at. The loop hole was closed by the ACO. When LMP900 and LMP675 were changed to P-1/P-2 the P-2s no longer were designed to be overall winners, without the P-1s flubbing it. The P-1s were Werks cars and the top flight privateers, the rest of the privateers raced in P-2 making it the DEFACTO pro/am class. The old timers around here know that 'the spirit of the rules' were such, until Porsche exploited the loophole, then the ACO closed it shortly there after. The Spyders then faded away.....







L.P.

Maybe we are getting too much into the nuts and bolts but LMP2 cars "cost capped" cars started in 2011. Even today LMP2 cars are much slower than the P2 cars in 2008. Still Mr. Horndawg you sound like a knowlegable person. Are you involve in racing in anyway? I'm just an average joe fan.

[chernaudi]

The ACO never seriously started to "enforce" the "pro-am" driver rule until about 2010, and it was in reaction to the ALMS LMP2 semi-works/de-facto factory teams, and fears that the same would happen in the LMS. It became a rule in 2010, but when a RS Spyder was entered in the LMS in '08 with a Porsche factory driver being one of it's drivers, it became a "spirit of the rules" debate.

The change only came to the ALMS when they adopted the ACO LMP1 and LMP2 regs when the engine downsizing came to LMP1 and stock block engines/cost caps came into LMP2.

The pro-am driver deal could maybe be interpreted as an extension of the spirit of the cost cap rules.

[seanyb505]

Originally Posted by Chiana

No.

Please accept my apologies that my hyperbole was not 100% accurate.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

When LMP900 and LMP675 were changed to P-1/P-2 the P-2s no longer were designed to be overall winners, without the P-1s flubbing it. The P-1s were Werks cars and the top flight privateers, the rest of the privateers raced in P-2 making it the DEFACTO pro/am class

Just because LMP2 was no longer "allowed" to be able to win races overall didn't automatically mean that the class was dumbed down as "pro-am" class (which, once again as others have said, didn't happen until turn of the decade with the driver restrictions and cost caps). Yes ACO didn't want factories there and yes they didn't enjoy what Porsche and Acura did, but nevertheless - Being a privateer-only class does not make it pro-am as it now is!

Also most of the privateer teams in LMP1 were on the same exact level with the LMP2 teams, or would you say that teams like Autocon and Intersport were particularly more top flight than RML's and Racing Boxes of LMP2? P1 Privateer/Petrol class of the past had Pescarolos and Orecas and earlier Champion Racings yes but it was also full of P2-esque teams of today. Ánd particularly in the States, Spiders or not, the level of pro P2 teams was amazing and easily on par with top flight Europeans.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

No, P-1 & P-2 started in 2004. Prior to that it was LMP 900 & LMP 675 which were two seperate formulas that raced against each other for the overall win. The Spyder vs. ARX was the exception that I hinted at. The loop hole was closed by the ACO. When LMP900 and LMP675 were changed to P-1/P-2 the P-2s no longer were designed to be overall winners, without the P-1s flubbing it. The P-1s were Werks cars and the top flight privateers, the rest of the privateers raced in P-2 making it the DEFACTO pro/am class. The old timers around here know that 'the spirit of the rules' were such, until Porsche exploited the loophole, then the ACO closed it shortly there after. The Spyders then faded away.....







L.P.

Somehow you've got it wrong, I don't know if you weren't around at the LMP675 time, or just conveniently changed reality.

[jasonjessica09]

I think the best idea for IMSA to do with class structure by 2017 is to look no further than what ELMS has right now. They seem to make LMP2/GTE/GT3 work out pretty good. For IMSA of course it would be better as prototype and GTLM won't have pro-am mandates. Leave that for GT3/GTD.