Paul Tracy

[Mosport67]

Alex is not Paul Tracy. In Toronto this year people actually left when PT ran out of fuel. Others cheered everytime a Forsythe car came along.

PT is very important to the casual fans especially in Toronto.

[paul-collins]

Originally Posted by Snrub

The big ovals in Nascar are foot to the floor affairs, so it stands to reason that outside drivers essentially don't have to learn to drive the cars. That's an exageration, but not having to determine a car's performance potential and not having to worry about going too deep into a corner or taking a corner too fast is a big difference.

No, but that will be replaced by learning how to do all sorts of group-driving tricks, like bump-drafting.

Don't for a second think that PT will have an easy time.

[Amar7605]

Paul-collins is right. Those NASCAR guys will rough him up. PT better be prepared for that. But he is agressive as well, so I think that PT will give the other drivers some of the same.

[N I Tram]

I don't think Paul's short-term career will be affected by how well he does in this race. If it's a disaster I'm sure he'll try again; if it goes well I don't thinnk it will accelerate his move towards it full-time. I think ChampCar has mroe to gain from this that NASCAR anyway.

[rustyfan]

Originally Posted by Snrub

The big ovals in Nascar are foot to the floor affairs, so it stands to reason that outside drivers essentially don't have to learn to drive the cars. That's an exageration, but not having to determine a car's performance potential and not having to worry about going too deep into a corner or taking a corner too fast is a big difference.

I don't get this post. Are you saying that the general "outsider's" view is that stock cars are "easy" to drive and as such get a reality check when they cross over, or do you actually mean that the cars are easy to drive and that outsiders don't have much of a learning curve?

I won't elaborate my reply until I get a confirmation on this, but I sincerely hope you mean the first alternative.




Also...

Originally Posted by Amar7605

Those NASCAR guys will rough him up. PT better be prepared for that. But he is agressive as well, so I think that PT will give the other drivers some of the same.

I find it amazing how this thinking, that stock-car veterans "are out to get those dang outsiders!", is still so common about diehard (elitist?) open-wheelers, and yes, every single time I see posts like this I almost laugh out loud.

First off, y'all need to stop thinking that Days of Thunder is an accurate reflection of stock car reality. Secondly, "outsiders" have a long tradition of entering stock car races without automatically being "targeted", and producing mighty fine results as well. Hell, back in the late 60's when Formula 1 driver Innes Ireland entered the Daytona 500 - and did mighty well I might add, until his engine let go - he got nothing but praise and respect from the stock car veterans. And let's not forget Mario Andretti and AJ Foyt winning the Daytona 500.

Anyhow, there are a two MAJOR reasons "outsiders" have had a rather tough time entering NASCAR in recent years:

Number ONE - They have been cocky. For example, neither Scott Pruett nor Christian Fittipaldi spent any considerable amount of time in the Busch Series (three starts each). A full year, or at least an A-B-C one (ARCA/Busch/Cup), is almost essential before taking on the Cup Series full time these days.

Number TWO - They both entered the Cup Series with, at the time, poor teams. Pruett joined driving for Cal Wells brand new Cup team, and right off the bat I can't think of a single Cup team that has experienced instant success - in particular a team started by people coming from the outside. With that said, the team has won a few races now, but it took them YEARS before they eventually reached victory lane. As for Fittipaldi, he joined the Petty team, one of the absolutely worst teams at that time (they have since gotten a bit better, after starting to work with Evernham Racing), and Fittipaldi was pretty much doomed from the get-go.

Now, compare those two to Tony Stewart, also an outsider. Obviously he experienced a lot of success, so what did he do differently? Well, not only did he sign up for a GOOD team, Joe Gibbs Racing, he also did nearly a full Busch Series season in 1998 (22 starts). The result? 22 Cup victories (and counting) plus the 2002 Cup Championship.

So don't blame the stock-car drivers for the failures of Pruett and Fittipaldi - they have no one to blame but themselves. And perhaps their career-advisers (if they have one).

[rustyfan]

Originally Posted by Snrub

That's a lot of money for Christian, although presumably he had to share much of that with the team?

I don't have any exact numbers, but I'm guessing the driver's share of the prize money is around 40%-50% or so. Probably depends a lot on how they have laid out the contracts etc though.

[Snrub]

Originally Posted by enemy-ace

Can you honestly say that you wouldn't tune in, even out of curiosity?

The most I would do would be to tune it to see where PT is in the field. I wouldn't keep it on the channel unless they had PT on screen in the brief moment that I checked the standings. I'm not trying to slam Nascar, but I don't like watching it. I really don't understand the frequent comments that it's so action packed. I find it really uninteresting. The short tracks are a lot more interesting, but even then it's not really my cup of tea.

Originally Posted by rustyfan

I don't get this post. Are you saying that the general "outsider's" view is that stock cars are "easy" to drive and as such get a reality check when they cross over, or do you actually mean that the cars are easy to drive and that outsiders don't have much of a learning curve?

I have always been critical of foot to the floor races whether its done by Champ Car, IRL or Nascar (all three are guilty). I'm saying that I have zero doubt that with the right car PT can put in a comparable lap to anyone of the top Nascar drivers on a track like MI (we've seen Bourdais do it in IROC). I would also contend that probably 2/3rds of the Nascar field could come over to CC and put in a terrific lap at Vegas or any other large oval where Champ Car might run with a flatout package. I realize that it's very small and subtile things that make the difference in flatout racing, but starting from the postition of being able to do a fast lap will make a big difference compared to if he had to start on a short track and really learn the car. In a flatout race, factors that play a smaller roll in normal racing are what seperates the drivers from each other, rather than their car control. IMO most of what it takes to race should be about car control.

For an easy comparison (because I have the numbers in my head), the IRL ran at MI on the weekend. The cars varied in speed between ~219mph at the end of the straight to ~216mph mid corner. Once upon a time when CC ran a proper big oval package they ran ~260mph at the end of the straight and ~230mph mid corner. If you didn't slow at the right times in the old CC setup you were going into the wall. In the current IRL setup even if you missed the optimal turn in point a bit, the worst that would happen is that you'd scrub an extra MPH off during the corner. Which do you think is more difficult to drive? Which is more compelling to watch?

I'm not suggesting that stock cars are easy, but since you've asked my opinion I would contend that they are easier to drive than a Champ Car. eg. I would suggest that if you took the F1 field and dropped them into the completely forign Nascars and then took the Nascar drivers and dropped them into the completely forign F1 cars, the F1 drivers would have an easier time. It stands to reason that if you're trained to drive something fast you are more likely to be able to adapt to something slower. There is no gaurenty that one can can step up to something faster. It's also about mastering the subtilities of each vehicle. OW cars are finicy unforgiving beasts. In the F1/Nascar swap scenerio some from each side would simply never be in top form in the other kind of vehicle.

[paul-collins]

Originally Posted by rustyfan

I find it amazing how this thinking, that stock-car veterans "are out to get those dang outsiders!", is still so common about diehard (elitist?) open-wheelers, and yes, every single time I see posts like this I almost laugh out loud.

First off, y'all need to stop thinking that Days of Thunder is an accurate reflection of stock car reality. Secondly, "outsiders" have a long tradition of entering stock car races without automatically being "targeted", and producing mighty fine results as well. Hell, back in the late 60's when Formula 1 driver Innes Ireland entered the Daytona 500 - and did mighty well I might add, until his engine let go - he got nothing but praise and respect from the stock car veterans. And let's not forget Mario Andretti and AJ Foyt winning the Daytona 500.

It's my understanding that there were some late race heroics in Mario's case, and a lot of long faces when he won.

Ron Fellows could rightly complain of poor treatment at the hands of officials (closed pits, Watkins Glen) or lesser lights (Bill Elliot, Sears Point), but he never would.

There is an *outsider* culture; consider the fans' pelting of the track with beer cans when Jeff Gordon won under caution - he's still viewed as an outsider in some circles!

...but that isn't the reason PT will likely have difficulty (at least directly). I think he'll have to spend some time getting to know how pack racing works, and who to trust and who not to.

[rustyfan]

Originally Posted by paul-collins

There is an *outsider* culture; consider the fans' pelting of the track with beer cans when Jeff Gordon won under caution - he's still viewed as an outsider in some circles!

That incident at Talladega was actually more due to the fact that the caution stopped mega-fan-favorite Dale Jr. - who was running second IIRC - from making a serious attempt at winning the race. Sure, Jeff Gordon being the leading driver probably made the fans a bit extra annoyed, considering he's considered the main rival to Earnhardt Jr. in many ways and, to be frank, is disliked by quite a few. Then again, being booed etc is something the drivers have to deal with, and not even Jeff Gordon can match the dislike quite a few have for Kurt Busch these days.

So, yeah, they may have partly thrown stuff on the track because Jeff Gordon was leading, but not because he's an "outsider", but because lots of people simply don't like him. I can at least not think of any of the Gordon-haters that I know who dislike him for being an "outsider" - it's generally the fact that he came straight into a big-budget team as a rookie from the Busch Series, something that was quite uncommon back in the early 90's. Usually rookies came into the Cup Series with lesser teams and "paid their dues", and Gordon stepping up like he did was what irked a LOT of people (and also the reason he still gets called "prettyboy" or "golden boy" by quite a few anti-Gordon fans).

Anyhow, as for throwing stuff onto the track, the same thing happened at Daytona a few years and the backstretch crowd littered the track with seat cushions as the race ended under yellow (can't remember who was leading etc at the time of the caution in that race though).

[rustyfan]

Originally Posted by Snrub

The most I would do would be to tune it to see where PT is in the field. I wouldn't keep it on the channel unless they had PT on screen in the brief moment that I checked the standings. I'm not trying to slam Nascar, but I don't like watching it. I really don't understand the frequent comments that it's so action packed. I find it really uninteresting. The short tracks are a lot more interesting, but even then it's not really my cup of tea.



I have always been critical of foot to the floor races whether its done by Champ Car, IRL or Nascar (all three are guilty). I'm saying that I have zero doubt that with the right car PT can put in a comparable lap to anyone of the top Nascar drivers on a track like MI (we've seen Bourdais do it in IROC). I would also contend that probably 2/3rds of the Nascar field could come over to CC and put in a terrific lap at Vegas or any other large oval where Champ Car might run with a flatout package. I realize that it's very small and subtile things that make the difference in flatout racing, but starting from the postition of being able to do a fast lap will make a big difference compared to if he had to start on a short track and really learn the car. In a flatout race, factors that play a smaller roll in normal racing are what seperates the drivers from each other, rather than their car control. IMO most of what it takes to race should be about car control.

For an easy comparison (because I have the numbers in my head), the IRL ran at MI on the weekend. The cars varied in speed between ~219mph at the end of the straight to ~216mph mid corner. Once upon a time when CC ran a proper big oval package they ran ~260mph at the end of the straight and ~230mph mid corner. If you didn't slow at the right times in the old CC setup you were going into the wall. In the current IRL setup even if you missed the optimal turn in point a bit, the worst that would happen is that you'd scrub an extra MPH off during the corner. Which do you think is more difficult to drive? Which is more compelling to watch?

I'm not suggesting that stock cars are easy, but since you've asked my opinion I would contend that they are easier to drive than a Champ Car. eg. I would suggest that if you took the F1 field and dropped them into the completely forign Nascars and then took the Nascar drivers and dropped them into the completely forign F1 cars, the F1 drivers would have an easier time. It stands to reason that if you're trained to drive something fast you are more likely to be able to adapt to something slower. There is no gaurenty that one can can step up to something faster. It's also about mastering the subtilities of each vehicle. OW cars are finicy unforgiving beasts. In the F1/Nascar swap scenerio some from each side would simply never be in top form in the other kind of vehicle.

Actually, the only two tracks where they race flat out in the Cup series are Daytona and Talladega (equalling four races per year, out of thirty-six) - all other tracks require that you either step off the gas and/or brake entering the turns.

And on the intermediate tracks in particular it's far from uncommon to have drivers drive in too deep and so on.

Or for that matter come out of turn two at Atlanta with so badly worn tires that the rear end steps out enough to almost scrape the wall, like rookie Carl Edwards did at Atlanta with ten laps to go this spring. And yeah, he still managed to catch Johnson on the very last lap to win by a nose at the line. Easily one of the top three motorsport finishes this year.

I'd like, no, I'd love to see a Formula 1 driver put on the same show Edwards did that day (of course including the celebratory backflip in front of the grandstands)

[TedN]

Sounds like the test went well. Link

Ted

[rustyfan]

I wonder if they still plan on letting him test at Michigan on August 8th-9th, as originally planned. I would assume so, since nothing beats getting track-time.

[Snrub]

I like this part of Ted's link: I'm very excited about this opportunity, especially at Michigan where I have a lot of experience," Tracy said. "Driving a NASCAR Nextel Cup car will be totally new to me but my focus is to develop a package that will help Kevin (Harvick), Jeff (Burton) and Dave (Blaney) and their teams for the race weekend. I want to do whatever I can to help.

Does anyone think PT is doing this to help people develop their cars? Do you think he's going to be doddling around coming up with suggestions on how to better the setup? I know he's matured and all, but this is still the guy who once would have rathered to crash in the pursuit of perfection than to have won and not have given it 110%. I just can't see him being playing the roles of Rubens.

[enemy-ace]

PT is just playing the part of the good team-mate. He isn't stupid enough to think he is going to walk in and show everybody how it is done. He has a lot to learn and by the same token probably has a lot to teach. I think the general perception that 'stock car' racing is all about bumping and banging aggression is unfounded. My perception is that it is more a game of touch and patience. Tracy is going to have to "feel" the car and work in a group dynamic.

[Dov]

Paul has also mentioned that when he was near the end of his Champ Car career he would also like to get into sports car racing. I'd like to see PT at the 24 Hour of Le Mans and the 12 Hours of Sebring. IMO, we need to stop worrying when Pauls going to leave the CCWS and continue to enjoy him and his racing while he's still here. I would miss Tracy just as much as any other member here, but he owes us nothing and I'll always cheer on PT at whatever he does in life.

[rustyfan]

Originally Posted by Snrub

Does anyone think PT is doing this to help people develop their cars? Do you think he's going to be doddling around coming up with suggestions on how to better the setup? I know he's matured and all, but this is still the guy who once would have rathered to crash in the pursuit of perfection than to have won and not have given it 110%. I just can't see him being playing the roles of Rubens.

Considering how restricted testing is in NASCAR, every lap out on track is worth something these days.

And even if Tracy himself might not be able to relay a lot of data based on what he has felt out on track, the tire engineers, for example, would be able to gather data from the tires based on what tire pressure and camber-angles that have been used, which can be applied to the other cars on the team (if the numbers are positive). Why mention that? Because Goodyear introduced a new, harder compound for this season, which forced the teams to throw their old setups out the window and start with a blank sheet of paper. This is also the reason there have been a rather spectacular number of tire failures on some tracks this year, as some teams have pushed the envelope too far with their new, sometimes experimental setups.

[VilleneuveTracy]

Seeing PT, arguably the most aggressive driver on the planet, racing with fenders will be a great treat! I hope he does well (The "Tracy" in my username is for PT, it is not my name).

Erin Croker is a current example of an “outsider” driver being introduced to stock car racing via the big ovals. She had a very good run in an Evernham car at MIS in June."

Crocker was driving a cup team's equipment in a 4th-tier series. PT will be racing in inferior equipment (RCR is a mere shadow of its former self, and this comes from an Earnhardt and Harvick fan...) in stock car racing's premier series. I think PT, due to his great talent, will do well but I don't think the Crocker analogy is valid for him. I also hope that if he does move to NASCAR he gets a ride with a top-tier team. He will not contend for wins and championships on a regular basis with RCR, a team that went 0-for-3 in making the "playoffs" last season and is likely going to make that 0-for-6 after all three cars fail to qualify for the Chase this year.

With respect to the "outsider" issue, unfortunately, PT will have considerable problems for three reasons: 1) He is from OWR 2) He is a foreigner 3) Did I mention he is a foreigner? It is sad to say but NASCAR fans are far more xenophobic and racist than the general American population. These are the same people who welcomed German Dodge with open arms but went ballistic when Toyota decided to join NASCAR's third-level series. PT does have two mitigating factors in his favor, though, namely that he is driving for RCR, a popular team, especially among "old school" fans, and that he doesn't have a "funny accent."

So, yeah, they may have partly thrown stuff on the track because Jeff Gordon was leading, but not because he's an "outsider", but because lots of people simply don't like him.

One reason JG is so hated is because he is a non-Southerner. There are still many fans who believe NASCAR should remain a Southern-oriented and Southerner dominated sport. It is no coincidence that JG is disliked the most in the South and the inicident you refer to happened in the heart of the Deep South. Would that have happened at Loudon or Watkins Glen? I doubt it would have been nearly as bad at those and other non-Southern venues.

I can at least not think of any of the Gordon-haters that I know who dislike him for being an "outsider" - it's generally the fact that he came straight into a big-budget team as a rookie from the Busch Series, something that was quite uncommon back in the early 90's. Usually rookies came into the Cup Series with lesser teams and "paid their dues", and Gordon stepping up like he did was what irked a LOT of people (and also the reason he still gets called "prettyboy" or "golden boy" by quite a few anti-Gordon fans).

Those are the "official" reasons given for him being disliked but let's keep in mind that the bulk of anti-JG people are Earnhardt fans. Earnhardt came out of the minors and straight into a big-budget cup team and won a race in his rookie year and won the championship in his second year. To this day no one in NASCAR has won the title in his second season except Earnhardt. JG was winless in his rookie year, finishing a mediocore 14th in the final standings, and while he won twice in his second season, he finished a distant 8th in the standings. He didn't start dominating until his third year. I find it amusing to see Earnhardt fans, who also pull for Dale Junior, complain about JG coming into the cup series with a ride with a well-funded team.

I think the real reason JG is hated is that he not only replaced Dale Earnhardt as the dominant driver in NASCAR but utterly dominated NASCAR from 1995-1999, and arguably also in 2001. No other driver in the modern era has been able to string together a stretch, in terms of wins, that JG was able to from 1995-1999 (7, 10, 10, 13, 7 wins in each year). Success naturally attracts many people and it also breeds great dislike. JG is very popular because of his success but also very hated for it, just like DE was.

[rustyfan]

Originally Posted by VilleneuveTracy

With respect to the "outsider" issue, unfortunately, PT will have considerable problems for three reasons: 1) He is from OWR 2) He is a foreigner 3) Did I mention he is a foreigner? It is sad to say but NASCAR fans are far more xenophobic and racist than the general American population. These are the same people who welcomed German Dodge with open arms but went ballistic when Toyota decided to join NASCAR's third-level series. PT does have two mitigating factors in his favor, though, namely that he is driving for RCR, a popular team, especially among "old school" fans, and that he doesn't have a "funny accent."

The cries about Toyota are nowhere near as loud these days as they were when they first entered the Truck Series. Back then a lot of people were certain Toyota would come in with their guns blazing and outspend everyone, bringing in foreign drivers etc.

As it turns out, Toyota doesn't dominate and they enlisted popular stock-car veterans to drive for them. Not to mention the Toyota Tundra truck is more American (designed by Toyota USA and built in US factories by US citizens) than some "all-american" models (like some Chevrolets that are built in... Mexico).

As for the racism... if such a big part of the fan-base are racists, how come I know so many diehard fans that are big fans of Ron Fellows?

Originally Posted by VilleneuveTracy

One reason JG is so hated is because he is a non-Southerner. There are still many fans who believe NASCAR should remain a Southern-oriented and Southerner dominated sport. It is no coincidence that JG is disliked the most in the South and the inicident you refer to happened in the heart of the Deep South. Would that have happened at Loudon or Watkins Glen? I doubt it would have been nearly as bad at those and other non-Southern venues.

Of course that's a big part - or was, at least. These days, with so many drivers coming in from all over the US, their homestate doesn't mean as much as it once did.

Originally Posted by VilleneuveTracy

Those are the "official" reasons given for him being disliked but let's keep in mind that the bulk of anti-JG people are Earnhardt fans.

"Official" eh? Well, I'm not sure I'd call the actual opinions of actual fans posting on big stock car forums "official". I've been around said forums since 1996, and since that time I have gotten in touch with fans from all over the US (and the world, for that matter), both truly hardcore diehard ones as well as more 'casual' ones, with quite a few of them disliking Jeff Gordon, and I have heard lots of reasons for disliking him with coming straight into a big-budget team as a rookie being the primary one. A lack of "paying his dues" is also many times part of this dislike (relating to him coming in with RHR, as well as the fact that Gordon has yet to experience any real "hardship" in his stock car career).

Originally Posted by VilleneuveTracy

Earnhardt came out of the minors and straight into a big-budget cup team and won a race in his rookie year and won the championship in his second year. To this day no one in NASCAR has won the title in his second season except Earnhardt. JG was winless in his rookie year, finishing a mediocore 14th in the final standings, and while he won twice in his second season, he finished a distant 8th in the standings. He didn't start dominating until his third year. I find it amusing to see Earnhardt fans, who also pull for Dale Junior, complain about JG coming into the cup series with a ride with a well-funded team.

You sum it up quite well, but you do fail to mention a lot about Earnhardt's early career.

First off he did his Winston Cup debut in 1975, and for years he was restricted to racing in the Sportsman Series while doing one-off Winston Cup starts that he more or less had to beg for. In 1976 he made two starts, one of which included him destroying a car in a violent end-over-end accident during a race at Atlanta. 1977 through 1978 he made six more starts, with limited success.

In 1979 he was asked by Rod Osterlund drive a second car him alongside Dave Marcis, but when Marcis left the team Earnhardt got the call to simply replace him. He won his first race in his 15th start, and, as you mention, managed to win the Rookie of the Year honors. What you fail to mention, however, is that Earnhardt also suffered another violent crash, this time at Pocono, which injured him badly enough that he missed four races during the season.

In 1980 he was back with Osterlund and won the title. In 1981, however, he didn't manage to win any races, and adding to that Osterlund sold the team to J.D. Stacy twenty races into the season. Stacy and Earnhardt didn't get along and Earnhardt eventually left the team before the season was over.

After a brief stint with Richard Childress towards the end of 1981, and then racing for Bud Moore in 1982 (a season which saw him have another violent crash at Pocono, this time breaking a leg) and 1983, Earnhardt teamed up with Childress once again and the rest, as they say, is history.

So while Earnhardt indeed had better results in his two first full seasons, he had to face a lot more hardship and insecurity in his early years, compared to Gordon who has been with the same mega-team his entire career without having had to worry about his ride, as well as having been fortunate enough to avoid injuries.

Originally Posted by VilleneuveTracy

I think the real reason JG is hated is that he not only replaced Dale Earnhardt as the dominant driver in NASCAR but utterly dominated NASCAR from 1995-1999, and arguably also in 2001. No other driver in the modern era has been able to string together a stretch, in terms of wins, that JG was able to from 1995-1999 (7, 10, 10, 13, 7 wins in each year). Success naturally attracts many people and it also breeds great dislike. JG is very popular because of his success but also very hated for it, just like DE was.

It's part of it, no question about it, but it's not the sole reason but rather a combination of that and what has been mentioned earlier. And success, as you say, has always triggered boos - it's happened to Gordon, to Earnhardt and others (Darrell Waltrip in particular).

So to sum it up, those thinking there's a single, easily defined reason Gordon is disliked couldn't be more wrong.

These days Kurt Busch and Greg Biffle are more disliked than Gordon though. By far.

Ah well, enough OT from me. I for one can't wait for Tracy to make his debut (assuming he manages to qualify that is), and I'll continue to smile at those suggesting he will have a price on his head just because he happens to be an "outsider"

[chavez]

Originally Posted by Snrub

The big ovals in Nascar are foot to the floor affairs, so it stands to reason that outside drivers essentially don't have to learn to drive the cars. That's an exageration, but not having to determine a car's performance potential and not having to worry about going too deep into a corner or taking a corner too fast is a big difference.

The only tracks where a driver doesn't have to lift is Talledega and Daytona. And that is only if the car is handling well.

Michigan is certainly a track where the driver has to be concerned about going too deep into the turns.

[Snrub]

Robin Miller's take on PT going to Nascar: http://www.champcarworldseries.com/N...le.asp?ID=9489

[rustyfan]

Originally Posted by Snrub

Robin Miller's take on PT going to Nascar: http://www.champcarworldseries.com/N...le.asp?ID=9489

Pretty solid piece by RM there, for once. The only thing I'd have to disagree about is that hardly everyone in NASCAR would like to see Tracy fail.

I know the France family would love to see Tracy make his mark and become a successful regular, considering, as RM mentions, NASCAR is very serious about expanding into Canada (a Busch race at Montreal or Toronto has long been strongly rumoured to be the first step).

Personally I hope Tracy has learned something from the mistakes other open-wheel drivers have made, and since he joins a much better team than Pruett and Fittipaldi did, I think he'll be ok at least in terms of qualifying.

As for an eventual race result, I reckon a top-20 finish would be a very real possibility if he keeps his nose clean out there.

[rustyfan]

SpeedTV has a report on the first day of testing at MIS, available here:

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/nascar/18763/

Sounds like he had a pretty solid day.

[Snrub]

We know that Montreal isn't going to happen at least for a little while and in order for a race at TO to occur they'd have to bump CC out of there. Mosport might be a real possibility, but I haven't heard press seriously suggest it.

I think the question needs to be asked, why does Nascar want to expand into Canada? That answer might seem obvious, "to make more money," but if one looks at other major league sports in the US, they really haven't pushed for team expansion (hockey being the possible exception, but I don't know if it will still be considered a major league sport).

[brightline]

Originally Posted by Snrub

We know that Montreal isn't going to happen at least for a little while and in order for a race at TO to occur they'd have to bump CC out of there. Mosport might be a real possibility, but I haven't heard press seriously suggest it.

I think the question needs to be asked, why does Nascar want to expand into Canada? That answer might seem obvious, "to make more money," but if one looks at other major league sports in the US, they really haven't pushed for team expansion (hockey being the possible exception, but I don't know if it will still be considered a major league sport).

I think that NASCAR would be more sucessful in Canada than baseball and basketball, which are primarily associated with the USA. Racing is international regardless of the class or type of cars. Hockey is kind of the other way around, which is why Southern Florida, which gets no snow, has the Lightning and the Panthers!

[jjspierx]

Originally Posted by Snrub

We know that Montreal isn't going to happen at least for a little while and in order for a race at TO to occur they'd have to bump CC out of there. Mosport might be a real possibility, but I haven't heard press seriously suggest it.

I know I'm getting a little off-topic but...
Pretty sure that Mosport would need to be to modified a bit for it to be safe enough for Champcar cars. Turn 5a-b would be scary as well as turn 2 for a Champcar. Even the lower level series carry enough speed that when they go off they often times slide all the way out to the wall. But maybe I'm wrong, Mosport is a great track (I've driven on it) and if it could be made suitable for Champcar it would be fun to watch, even though passing oppurtunities on it would be few.