Silverstone Classic 2009 - if you could change one thing

[mattt]

As a marshal one thought i have on the night races is

Race 0900-1600 with an hour for lunch, then have a 2 hour break, then a 3 or 4 hour race starting at 1800

This is a similar to what they do at the Britcar with the night practise on the Friday.

Or if possible do a shift, but unless its the only meeting around here on that weekend it will be difficult

[john ruston]

What is really needed is insentives for more Marshals and a better thought out Race Programme.That would increase the Popularity.

The Entrant/Driver will get very little more than they do now and why should they have ?,as all the major circuits are much of a muchness as far as competitor facilities.I note that someone suggested it to be held at a different circuit.Explain where and as it needs to be in the centre of the country
BRDC Silverstone Festival at xyz somehow doesn't ring true!

[rogerwills]

I like mattt's proposal and the break could accommodate aerial displays, start of balloon flights or whatever.

I also think a bbq or party after the night race with marshalls, drivers and teams getting access and drinks/food would go a long way to saying thank you to the marshalls who put in so much for us to enjoy our time on the track.

[terence]

Something I've suggested on a number of occasions Roger,it would have to come out of the drivers pockets though because there are no organizers I know of who would stump up for it,after all,they should be gratefull to all of us who take part.
As for a different venue,where? Cant somehow imagine it being held a Snett,Brands? Dont think so,unless you invited all of the locals along,Rockingham,definitely not the sort of event to be held in a concrete jungle!

[compte deGraves]

Originally Posted by delta

Sorry everyone but i was very happy with it all in 2008.If the Delta team get the same treatment next year i will be very happy. We did have a small prob when the van was towed away but that was soon sorted .O yes one small thing they can invite and have a race for the Historic FF2000.

Delta, you were not very happy on Thursday when you spent 2 hours trying to find a pair of XXXXXL overall for the fat Count - and all because the scrutineers improperly confiscated his own overalls. BUT seriously how is it that the German organisers can lay on breakfast lunch and dinner for the drivers and mechanics for free (over three days!), entry fees for spectators and competitors are less and the stands are full to capacity? The hotelier I stay with says they make more money at the time of the Oldtimers than at any other time (other than F1 when it ran at Nurburgring).

[rogerwills]

My turn.

Firstly, congratulations to Roger Etcell and his team and everyone else involved in the organisation. When you think what the event was like in 2007 it has moved into a totally different league. A very impressive turnaround in such a short period.

For me I'd like to see in 2009:

- add either a small engine sports car race or allow small engine cars to run in the sports car race (for 2 years running only 2 litre plus cars have been given entries and the David and Goliath / little vs large battles always make a good spectacle)

- perhaps a 3 hr evening race on Friday for pre-66 GTs and Sports Cars ala Guards Trophy

- Classic means different things to different people. To me its 1980s at the outside (Group C only please) so 1990s touring cars etc don’t do it for me.

- 1970s touring cars would be a superb spectacle

- I liked the paddock without trucks etc – more of this, please

- as I’ve said previously, a party after the evening race for competitors, marshalls and teams. If the organisers don’t do it, I will have everyone to our truck next year!

- revert to the proper historic circuit without the new shabby Abbey!

- lose the "modern" Porsches

- combine the Astons into GT or other races rather than a one-make race

- nice to have the Drivers Club to escape the heat (rain?)

- the podium should be where the crowd can see it, not in the paddock

Once again, well done to all involved and looking forward to an even bigger and better Classic in 2009!

[terence]

Originally Posted by compte deGraves

Delta, you were not very happy on Thursday when you spent 2 hours trying to find a pair of XXXXXL overall for the fat Count - and all because the scrutineers improperly confiscated his own overalls. BUT seriously how is it that the German organisers can lay on breakfast lunch and dinner for the drivers and mechanics for free (over three days!), entry fees for spectators and competitors are less and the stands are full to capacity? The hotelier I stay with says they make more money at the time of the Oldtimers than at any other time (other than F1 when it ran at Nurburgring).

Just one of those very British mysteries ,something I've often wondered about !!!

[terence]

I should point out that my previous comment was not aimed at Roger Ectell's team,as Mr Will's has said,considering the relatively short space of time,they did an excellent job at organising the actual event.I still think it would be even better with Masters organising the racing though.

[Belmondo]

- Replace "spectator viewing areas" out on GP circuit (slag piles) with grass banks.

- Revert to original Stowe, bottom straight & Club (still used in early Christies meetings). Becketts is a mess, get rid of it. Also the Complex –*awful.

- Remove a few thousand miles of chicken-wire fence from paddock.

- Move track 50-100 yards nearer spectators.

- Nothing post-1975.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by compte deGraves

... BUT seriously how is it that the German organisers can lay on breakfast lunch and dinner for the drivers and mechanics for free (over three days!), entry fees for spectators and competitors are less and the stands are full to capacity? The hotelier I stay with says they make more money at the time of the Oldtimers than at any other time (other than F1 when it ran at Nurburgring).

The answer is simple, the marketing concept is "set the price low and the spectators will come" thus you actually pull in more money at the gate as a consequence. There were "over 700 entries" at Silverstone according to the commentators and with a bit more imagination that figure could be increased! So the entry fees could be reduced as well.

As for the free food etc that is just down to superb German organisation and a little thought for the events customers (i.e. the competitors) and marshals who give of their time. Again costs need not be huge and the effect of such a gesture is that the marshals and competitors will keep coming back.

Thinking back I was amazed that big chunks of the central paddock area were devoted to "hostility" which I thought should have been a more peripheral activity.

I also agree with one of the earlier contributors that signage in the paddock was poor bordering on none existant.

[KA]

Originally Posted by john ruston

Who pays for these old Drivers to come out and race the 90's Saloons and where do the cars come from?

To be honest John, finding the cars might not actually be that much of a problem as there seem to be a fair number of 90's touring cars still active in club racing, (although some of them aren't in 100% original spec or liveries...) A quick look at the website for the LMA Euro Saloons series shows something like 10 90's Supertouring cars registered this year for that series alone. To be honest, as much as I'd enjoy seeing a good grid of them, that's the real issue to me- I don't think it's really time just yet to be seeing them at historic meetings given the quantity of them still around in 'modern' racing.

I think it's time will come, it's just a bit premature right now, and we run the risk of ending up with something that looks more like a modern club saloon race than a feature of a major historic meeting

Now a grid of original 80's Group A cars, is a different thing entirely- but probably much harder to put together....

[john ruston]

Chrysler used to sponsor the Food bit at Coys and then the money to do this stopped.Masters provided food for their people and Duncan Wiltshire for his Gang at the Festival.This is the start of a new organisation and it will take a few years to sort the peripheral bits and in my opinion that is what the food is.Certainly the Food at the Oldtimers is not what it was 10 years ago when it was sponsored and I note the people in the Old Paddock at the Ring use the corner resturant dispite having passes to the food hut in Main Paddock.

Roger -Decent list of ideas-

Why doesn't someone parcel these views up and pass them onto Motion Works,I'm not that clever!

[brands]

I would :

lose the Porsche races
invite the Orwell CanAm series
move some of the car clubs onto the infield hard standing and have the rally stage on grass/dirt


Having room to move about at the back of the garages was great, the assembly area in full view was also special and since most seated spectators appeared to be in Luffield B and therefore couldn't see a podium whichever side of the pit buildings it was on, I would leave it alone on the paddock side.

[john ruston]

Can't see Orwell and Masters on same programme in UK as Orwell is effectively a German Series and no way are they going to jeopardise their Oldtimer Races .A gap of four weeks between the Major meetings would make more sense and allow for correct preparation

Bottom line-Sort the Calender

[Tom Walker]

I thought it was a superb weekend, and talking to the odd spectator, it went down well with them. More than one comment re being able to wander round the cars/pits, unlike Goodwood Rev..

The weather helped.

I think Motionworks did a great job, notwithstanding the one or two things already mentioned.

Surely it makes sense for the umbrella organisation to seek help from Masters/HSCC/Legends etc so the latter groups can marshall their entrants. Its simply makes management sense. The big decision is who to ask each following year. They shouldnt be afraid to mix it up a bit, (but personally I am against anything post mid-70's). Having to maintain a relationship with the various sub-organisers restricts this a little.

For the spectators:

Better map of which race/era is where. Cars then kept together.

Fettlers/owners should be firmly told to push cars out to be viewed whenever possible.

Big screens are very popular when strategically placed and should be encouraged.

Drivers:

I love the GP cicuit. (Except awful awful Luffield etc, but would they let us do without that ??) Would be better without the chicanes after Stowe...is that worth fighting for ?

Silverstone is a great venue. It needs to be huge...where are you going to park all those motorhomes at any other circuit ?

There are still some huge trucks in the paddock/pits that dont need to be there. It is so hard to wean these guys off their pantechnicons, and the old boy network is also at work here. It was great to see cars being winched away, and really had an effect on those selfish arses who normally dont care.

Legends gave us a great tent for drinks and a seat. All drivers should have something like that close at hand.

I would be interested to hear opinions on the length of races.....I'm not convinced that the 60-90 minute jobs make better spectating. Being an owner/fettler, I dont always want someone else in my car, and find the prospect of an hour solo a bit much. Personally I think 20-30-40 min races are best. Obviously longer end of the scale at bigger circuits. I do understand that the longer the races during a given day, the less "between race" down time the spectator endures, but I am against this drift towards long 2 driver jobs. Speaking to one of the race organisers, he thinks they are the way to go, and I told him I didnt agree. Endurance races are a different story and are afantastic feature for a weekend meeting, Sat pm. Any ideas?

Roll on next year!

[john ruston]

Tom-Legends races should be 2x35 min Heats over two days but think the costs ,as far as Duncan is concerned ,in hiring track time do not stack up.The circuits should recognize this.These races always used to be 30/40 mins and keeps cars at circuit for extra day.Much better for the cars entrants and actual racing.

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by john ruston

Why doesn't someone parcel these views up and pass them onto Motion Works,I'm not that clever!

Already done, although there really is no need since this is read.

Now, actually we are duplicating much of what was said on the main thread since we have gone well away from picking just one thing that we would change! I might have to do some merging or at least change the title of this thread!

[terence]

Originally Posted by john ruston

Tom-Legends races should be 2x35 min Heats over two days but think the costs ,as far as Duncan is concerned ,in hiring track time do not stack up.The circuits should recognize this.These races always used to be 30/40 mins and keeps cars at circuit for extra day.Much better for the cars entrants and actual racing.

One of the main UK problems there John,the circuit owners over here seem to put so much value on renting out a piece of land,possibly nearly twice the price of our European counterparts.

[simon drabble]

I agree with pretty much all that has been said here - the common complaint it seems is what on earth was the Porsche race doing there.... I agree with Roger about including the twin cams in the endurance race - they are happy to include them in the Spa race each year!
The drivers area in teh old days was excellant and a good meeting point but I accept it is a low priority... just hope that next year there will be a race I can enter!

[john ruston]

Terry .Costs are same problem at Spa and for some reason the best race time is 61 mins.Presumably price is 12/14 k an hour.It would make more sense to apportion costs on basis of making a balanced event .All these people from Circuit Owners to Preparation people to Race Organisers.in fact anyone who receives payment for performing a service in Historic Racing is in the Leisure business and its about time with present conditions they remembered that

[terence]

OK,I can agree with some of that John,but how would you explain the fact that the entry fee for the Six Hr is the same as last year.I have always understood the Europeans to look on us lot as entertainers,or certainly most of them do,and that is one reason why entry fee's are more acceptable.
Entry for Spa £2k,thats 500 per 1.5hrs,over here there have been several races in excess of 500 for an hours worth.

[john ruston]

The cost I was giving is that for race organisers renting the track .Assume total income from 6 hr is 185K against a track hire rate of about 120 k..If that is the case race organising is not that good a job!
If you lot do the entertaining it is not that successful as there are very few spectators ,perhaps because the majority of entrants are foreign!It race entry fees pay for the race and any spectators are a small bonus to the circuit owners.

[Peter Horsman]

I think the reason for 61 min Spa races is they are licensed to have larger grids for races in excess of one hour.

[terence]

John,Spa is circa 15k per day,Silverstone more like 25 these days.What does Silverstone have over Spa considering the rental income it is generating as a whole with the various units dotted around the site.
Sure there are industial units going up within the confines of Spa but that rental income helps with the circuit hire/events that are held there.
Peter that is exactly the reason,not a bad idea really.

[Rob29]

See thread re.Copenhagen GP.A historic racing festival in Hyde Park would be good.If the Danes can do it why not UK?