Ricciardo vs Verstappen 2017

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Well now Max has proved he can win on merit, the fight is on

It's obviously Max who's the better driver.
Ricciardo has only ever won on the occasions when Mercedes have screwed up - Max won outright against the best Mercedes could manage.

[S griffin]

Idk, Hungary 2014, yes helped by the weather, but he maximised every opportunity

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Idk, Hungary 2014, yes helped by the weather, but he maximised every opportunity

Rosberg should have won that race, but for not being allowed to pass his teammate.
Or Hamilton should have won that race, but for a fuel pressure issue.


So I still maintain that Mercedes handed that race to Ricciardo.

[Aysedasi]

I still rate Daniel very highly and the fact that he's a naturally likeable chap doesn't hurt. But if you had to pick one of the two to win the WDC in the next three years, I suspect that most of us would have our wager on Max.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I still rate Daniel very highly and the fact that he's a naturally likeable chap doesn't hurt. But if you had to pick one of the two to win the WDC in the next three years, I suspect that most of us would have our wager on Max.

I think it will bean interesting contest, Max may out-qualify Ricciardo, but will get involved in more dumb contacts than Ricciardo.
I think that Max is going to experience some very hard and uncompromising racing from a lot of other drivers as payback for the sins he has committed against others. When Max is going for the title the likes of Hamilton are not just going to jump out of his way because they are looking after bigger interests.

Also look at the current points tally, yes Max has suffered unreliability, but also had a bunch of dumb wrecks.

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by wnut

I think it will bean interesting contest, Max may out-qualify Ricciardo, but will get involved in more dumb contacts than Ricciardo.
I think that Max is going to experience some very hard and uncompromising racing from a lot of other drivers as payback for the sins he has committed against others. When Max is going for the title the likes of Hamilton are not just going to jump out of his way because they are looking after bigger interests.

Also look at the current points tally, yes Max has suffered unreliability, but also had a bunch of dumb wrecks.

"a buch of"?

for certain Austria and Spain where not his fault

he had 4 mechanical DNF's and most people think Singapore was Vettels fault

so wich of that 7 you think he was to blame?

[Kempi]

He has been in F1 longer than just 2017.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

"a buch of"?

for certain Austria and Spain where not his fault

he had 4 mechanical DNF's and most people think Singapore was Vettels fault

so wich of that 7 you think he was to blame?

Spain: Start accident with Raikkonen

Monaco: Contact with Grosjean

Canada: Ran over Vettel's front wing

Austria: Turn1 crash with Alonso

Silverstone: Verstappen and Vettel contact

Hungary: Massive contact with Ricciardo

Hungary: "That kid is dangerous, so it wasn't worth it." Hamilton

Singapore: Squeezed between Ferraris.

Not all his fault by any means, possibly due to the fact that he is a hard racer, but not good for WDC driver point accumulation!

I would also argue that if it was Hamilton that was between the Ferraris in Singapore there wouldn't have been an accident. Maybe the accident wasn't Verstappen's fault, but it was avoidable.

Ricciardo however is clean other than contact with Max in Hungary. ( Certainly Max's fault.)

[steve nielsen]

Spain: Start accident with Raikkonen

-Raikkonen was punted into him by Bottas


Austria: Turn1 crash with Alonso
- Alonso was punted into him by Kvyat

Silverstone: Verstappen and Vettel contact
- There was no contact, first vettel forced Max of track, in the next corner Max returned the favor


And if you look back at the incidents Hamilton and Vettel both had in the beginning of their careers: it did'nt stop them from beeing WDC

[wnut]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

Spain: Start accident with Raikkonen

-Raikkonen was punted into him by Bottas


Austria: Turn1 crash with Alonso
- Alonso was punted into him by Kvyat

Silverstone: Verstappen and Vettel contact
- There was no contact, first vettel forced Max of track, in the next corner Max returned the favor


And if you look back at the incidents Hamilton and Vettel both had in the beginning of their careers: it did'nt stop them from beeing WDC

All I am saying is that Max's current number of contacts will hinder him in competing with Ricciardo in the near future. I am sure that he will be a WDC he is very talented and the contacts will diminish as he gains experience.

It is generally not who is to blame in a contact, but the fact that a "racing incident occurs", they cost points.


Vettel has probably cost himself a championship this year by not picking who he gets involved with. Wheel banging with Lewis under the safety car and forcing the point with Max in Singapore.

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by wnut

All I am saying is that Max's current number of contacts will hinder him in competing with Ricciardo in the near future. I am sure that he will be a WDC he is very talented and the contacts will diminish as he gains experience.

It is generally not who is to blame in a contact, but the fact that a "racing incident occurs", they cost points.


Vettel has probably cost himself a championship this year by not picking who he gets involved with. Wheel banging with Lewis under the safety car and forcing the point with Max in Singapore.

It's not like Ricciardo has never been involved in such incidents

[FAS33]

Ricciardo is better then Max. Max's wins came from luck. Not to mention he's getting destroyed in the points tally this year.

Qualifying means Nothing on Sunday. Also Ricciardo is the best overtaker in F1.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by FAS33

Ricciardo is better then Max. Max's wins came from luck. Not to mention he's getting destroyed in the points tally this year.

More like Ricciardo's wins come from luck:

Canada 2014 - Both Mercedes suffered MGU-K failures, Perez had brake issues.
Hungary 2014 - Both Mercedes suffered overheating brakes, Hamilton had a fuel pressure problem, Rosberg missed out on pit entry due to safety car timing.
Belgium 2014 - The Mercedes collided with each other.
Malaysia 2016 - Vettel took out Rosberg, Hamilton's engine failed.
Azerbaijan 2017 - Bottas had a collision with Raikkonen, Vettel damaged Hamilton's diffuser and his headrest came loose later.

Max's first win can be considered fortunate, but his latest was through outperforming the field on merit.

Max has a 50% win rate from luck, Ricciardo is up near 100% luck.
The difference in points tally is down to Max's bad luck.

[S griffin]

Max has been unfortunate to be involved in incidents that weren't his fault and it's good that he hasn't let his bad luck get to him too much. So he's definitely gonna be there next season if the car is good enough

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by FAS33

Ricciardo is better then Max. Max's wins came from luck. Not to mention he's getting destroyed in the points tally this year.

Qualifying means Nothing on Sunday. Also Ricciardo is the best overtaker in F1.

Sigh. You're not even trying anymore.

[FIRE]

Finally a good reason to visit this topic again.

[djinvicta]

It will get to a point where everyone will steer clear of Max on the starts and he will have a clear run into turn one each time he is on the front row. Consistently he has put his "elbows out" since he came into F1, and asserted himself, now feared by other drivers. Good to see; it's almost watchable again..

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

More like Ricciardo's wins come from luck:

Canada 2014 - Both Mercedes suffered MGU-K failures, Perez had brake issues.
Hungary 2014 - Both Mercedes suffered overheating brakes, Hamilton had a fuel pressure problem, Rosberg missed out on pit entry due to safety car timing.
Belgium 2014 - The Mercedes collided with each other.
Malaysia 2016 - Vettel took out Rosberg, Hamilton's engine failed.
Azerbaijan 2017 - Bottas had a collision with Raikkonen, Vettel damaged Hamilton's diffuser and his headrest came loose later.

Max's first win can be considered fortunate, but his latest was through outperforming the field on merit.

Max has a 50% win rate from luck, Ricciardo is up near 100% luck.
The difference in points tally is down to Max's bad luck.

the difference is Daniel has outclassed a 4 time world champion and will continue to destroy Max this year. nothing new. He also doesn't need to take his own team mate out to gain points too.

Won't mention which race it was.

but it was in the Hungarian GP.

[Aysedasi]

I was going to reply at more length but...... I just can't be bothered........

[BSchneiderFan]

Again, mods, can we put this thread out of our misery? I know I could just ignore the frotting fanboys, but does it deserve space?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by FAS33

the difference is Daniel has outclassed a 4 time world champion and will continue to destroy Max this year. nothing new. He also doesn't need to take his own team mate out to gain points too.

Won't mention which race it was.

but it was in the Hungarian GP.

But it is so obvious that Daniel has come nowhere near to outclassing Max this year.

Max is winning the tally of races won on merit - and will continue to do so as he doesn't rely on luck to get his wins.

[F1Guy]

So funny to see the usual suspects get their knickers in a twisty knot over what someone has posted! All the while the poster has clearly got a stick in a smelly pot with a big grin on their face!

[Aysedasi]

Not sure about that, I think FAS is actually quite serious.......

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Not sure about that, I think FAS is actually quite serious.......

It's a serious debate.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Not sure about that, I think FAS is actually quite serious.......

It would be hard to keep up an image of such delusion so long otherwise.
A bit like those who are so deluded about Vettel's ability - but that's for other threads.