[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[joeb]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

In case people are interested, the article is available as pdf on http://www.lapsim.nl/assets/pdf/Arti...014-LapSim.pdf

Cool to see all that is possible with simulation. I do wonder why they used such a high weight for the car, I think cars will be a bit lighter than the sims. Plus the reduction in width will have to have some impact on the drag efficiencies.

[gwyllion]

The content of article was already discussed. See http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...49#post3187849 and following discussion.

The weight used in the simulation includes the driver and fuel.

[TF110]

Still seems pretty goofy to me to make the cars minimum weight only 45kg (factory) less than what they are now. 800kg would be a good deal lighter and definitely go towards helping the efficiency. Not just a downsizing of the fuel allowed.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by TF110

Still seems pretty goofy to me to make the cars minimum weight only 45kg (factory) less than what they are now. 800kg would be a good deal lighter and definitely go towards helping the efficiency. Not just a downsizing of the fuel allowed.

That is also what I thought, but keeping the weight high makes it more of a challenge for manufacturers.

[TF110]

They could do both and keep the speeds where they are now. It's like F1, always trying to slow the cars down but they end up gaining it back in a year or two anyway.

[Speed-King]

Oh ACO, what have you done??

Looks like big honking fins are beginning to appear on road cars now:

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/03/04/l...-geneva-debut/

[TF110]

ACO? You mean FIA? Or better yet, the manufacturers themselves who came up with the idea!

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Oh ACO, what have you done??

Looks like big honking fins are beginning to appear on road cars now:

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/03/04/l...-geneva-debut/

Oh no, why??? Are the holes in the fenders next?

[hondafan37]

This Lamborghini is very ugly. Current LMP1 are very ugly too.
But I love the new Ferrari La Ferrari, Mc Laren P1, Porsche 918 RSR, Pagani Huayra etc.
I wish the LMP1 have the shape of these supercars. The ACO could change the rules to achieve the beauty of these supercars in your LMP1 class.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

But I love the new Ferrari La Ferrari, Mc Laren P1, Porsche 918 RSR, Pagani Huayra etc.
I wish the LMP1 have the shape of these supercars. The ACO could change the rules to achieve the beauty of these supercars in your LMP1 class.

I'm sure a lot of other fans would be happy with that proposition too. This is kind of what the ACO proposed way back (2008 - see start of this thread) with the Le Mans EVO rules. For whatever reason that was panned.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

This Lamborghini is very ugly. Current LMP1 are very ugly too.
But I love the new Ferrari La Ferrari, Mc Laren P1, Porsche 918 RSR, Pagani Huayra etc.
I wish the LMP1 have the shape of these supercars. The ACO could change the rules to achieve the beauty of these supercars in your LMP1 class.

Aerodynamic efficiency and beauty does not go well hand in hand. Rules would not fix it, if you want an actual prototype class instead of a GT class.

Originally Posted by joeb

I'm sure a lot of other fans would be happy with that proposition too. This is kind of what the ACO proposed way back (2008 - see start of this thread) with the Le Mans EVO rules. For whatever reason that was panned.

Manufacturers did not support it. Clearly Corvette was one and perhaps only one that supported it.

Glad it was canned, because it smelled like a big BoP mess.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Oh ACO, what have you done??

Looks like big honking fins are beginning to appear on road cars now:

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/03/04/l...-geneva-debut/

"AVUS Streamliner 2013": http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...udis_audi_r20/

[lms]

Originally Posted by deggis

"AVUS Streamliner 2013": http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...udis_audi_r20/

[gregtummer]

Where's the Big Honkin' Holes?

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by deggis

Aerodynamic efficiency and beauty does not go well hand in hand. Rules would not fix it, if you want an actual prototype class instead of a GT class.


Manufacturers did not support it. Clearly Corvette was one and perhaps only one that supported it.

Glad it was canned, because it smelled like a big BoP mess.

I agree with you, but if you handle the rules you can make your prototypes look like Hypercars.

[hondafan37]

The rules could be that

Originally Posted by Machin

Its interesting to note what makes a high performance road car look like a road car rather the current LMPs, since both are (supposedly) 2 seater, 4-wheel vehicles:-

• The biggest difference of course is that a road car like the McLaren MP4 12c is a proper two seater, seating two people in a relatively upright comfortable position... not a one and a half seater with a fire extinguisher/battery/KERS system in the passenger seat and a "green house" that is too big for one and too small for two.
• The other difference is that a road car, even a high performance one, needs to have at least a little luggage space (generally at the front of a mid or rear engine vehicle).
• The final area for main differences is related to safety legislation; bumpers and lights must be at or above a certain height above the road, and sharp edges must not present themselves in case of collision with pedetrians.

The issues above would set the basis for my "Prototype Sportscar" chassis rules, the rules governing the bodywork itself would be relatively free, but of course it would have to wrap itself around the larger passenger area that would be mandated. Fire extinguisers/batteries/KERS systems would need to be either in the engine bay area or in the "luggage" area; not the driver/passenger area.

Given those simple "road car" rules it would be interesting to see what aerodynamic solutions would be achieved; solutions that would be directly related, and applicable, to the challenges faced by road car designers....

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

I wish the LMP1 have the shape of these supercars. The ACO could change the rules to achieve the beauty of these supercars in your LMP1 class.

No, they shouldn't. Prototypes should look like what they are...prototypes, not road legal cars.

There's the GT classes for people who like production-based cars, I don't see why we would need the same in LMP1.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by Acid09

No, they shouldn't. Prototypes should look like what they are...prototypes, not road legal cars.

There's the GT classes for people who like production-based cars, I don't see why we would need the same in LMP1.

I agree Acid.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

I agree Acid.

What he said

[deggis]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

I agree with you, but if you handle the rules you can make your prototypes look like Hypercars.

I'll add that not without pretty much completely spec areas (like the whole front, undoubtedly the ugliest part of a modern LMP*) or something like that.

Machin's proposal forgets that supercars are not only designed to be efficient but also to look nice and desirable. You can't take looks into account with a full prototype race car (LMPs and F1s) because it doesn't make the car go faster, and then the competitor that forgot the looks wins.

* I didn't forget the fins - but they are not there to increase performance anyway...

[NelisB]

Don't you guys think that the GT prototype regulations used to spawn the better looking cars? I mean the Porsche GT1, Nissan 390 and the Toyota GT-one rank very highly on my good looking cars list.
With the current prototypes I get a "f1 with a carbonshell and a roof" feeling.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by NelisB

Don't you guys think that the GT prototype regulations used to spawn the better looking cars? I mean the Porsche GT1, Nissan 390 and the Toyota GT-one rank very highly on my good looking cars list.
With the current prototypes I get a "f1 with a carbonshell and a roof" feeling.

Even the ugliest prototypes then looked better, so did F1 cars. Main difference: 15 years in computer simulation and wind tunnels.

Also easily forgotten than the raised noses already started with the 905 Supercopters.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by NelisB

Don't you guys think that the GT prototype regulations used to spawn the better looking cars? I mean the Porsche GT1, Nissan 390 and the Toyota GT-one rank very highly on my good looking cars list.
With the current prototypes I get a "f1 with a carbonshell and a roof" feeling.

With the new low-downforce package the TS030 looks very much like an evolution of the GT1-One, the difference is just due to the advancements made in aerodynamics.

The GT1-One didn't look that way because it was pretty but because that was the standard of technology back then.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Mike has posted a copy of version 5.0 of the 2014 Draft Technical Regulations for LMP1 on Mulsanne's Corner:
2014 Draft Technical Regulations LMP1 V5.0

Noting the following changes:
- min weight increased to 870kg for LMP1-H / 850kg for LMP1-L (believe this was previously announced already)
- addition of "torque metering" provision (and new Technical Appendix E)
- revision of relevant energy/power figures in Appendix B
- reduction of wheel weight from 8.5 to 7.5kg
- etc.

This "torque metering" provision is intriguing...

[deggis]

Is it is for BoPing?

Noise level rule is back - totally unchanged from the way it is written now. I'm curious why it was not in the previous draft? Actually hoped it would have been abandoned for real.