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Old 30 Apr 2002, 15:23 (Ref:274457)   #1
Speed
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Speed should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Autosport, bad, bad, bad...

"Juan Pablo Montoya made both enemies and friends among the Williams crew in the Spanish Grand Prix – running one over and giving another his trophy!

At his second pit stop Montoya moved a fraction of a second before chief mechanic and 'lollipop man' Carl Gaden had been able to get his left foot out of the way. The luckless Gaden was pinned by Montoya's left front wheel but fortunately the Colombian stopped and the Williams crew was able to free its crew chief."

1) Do you think JPM made a single enemy for that accident ?
2) Do you think JPM moved "a fraction of a second before" ?

Shame on you, Autosport !
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Old 30 Apr 2002, 15:32 (Ref:274464)   #2
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Teh way I saw it the lollipop man lifted the sweety thing to early... then he stepped forward and dropped the lollipop at the same time (instinct) and as JPM breaked he ran over his foot at the same time.... thus both points 1 and 2 above are rediculous
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Old 30 Apr 2002, 15:40 (Ref:274470)   #3
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Muzza should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Autosport has been disappoiting me lately. I did not even renew my subscription, after many faithful years of reading.

It is still the best magazine out there, but it should watch out.
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Old 30 Apr 2002, 15:51 (Ref:274478)   #4
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Originally posted by Cougar21
thus both points 1 and 2 above are rediculous
My point, exactly...
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Old 30 Apr 2002, 16:03 (Ref:274483)   #5
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facco should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
seems like it was my sister the journo who wrote this (as she has no idea about motorsports)
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Old 30 Apr 2002, 17:58 (Ref:274574)   #6
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Originally posted by facco
seems like it was my sister the journo who wrote this (as she has no idea about motorsports)
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Old 30 Apr 2002, 18:12 (Ref:274593)   #7
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Yup Autosport seems to have gone downhill recently, maybe they are for the.................
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Old 30 Apr 2002, 18:36 (Ref:274618)   #8
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Autosport is the best magazine, shame the site doesn't back it up.
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Old 30 Apr 2002, 19:00 (Ref:274654)   #9
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Not being a JPM fan I took a good look at the incident and nope, it wasn't his fault. He's a racer so if the lollipop lifts its go as far as he knows.

Autosprout is being a bit disingenuous if they prtray it any other way.
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Old 1 May 2002, 12:45 (Ref:275549)   #10
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Yes, Autosport website is slow (even for guys like me with a T1 internet connection) and, worse, its contents are quite deceptive.

But more concerning is the fact that the level - and depth - of Autosport articles have declined indeed. I do not want to sound elitist, but the magazine has become much more "pop" on its approach to motorsports. It has more pundits than experts now. Instead, it needs more guys like Nigel Roebuck.

Also, F-1 rules in Autosport. F-1 gets just too much attention, it is given too many pages, makes too many covers. Out of the 52 weeks of the year, how many of them portrait a cover which has a non-F1 headline? Maybe once or twice, and usually during the off-season period. I found this even sadder because this is a British magazine, and if there is a country where the media is concerned about "motorsport diversity", this is the UK.

Cancelling my Autosport subscription was as shocking to me as the cooling down of my passion for F-1 - those things you never thought could happen. For about three years I almost forced myself to continue to be a faithful Autosport reader, but last year I gave up.
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Old 1 May 2002, 12:58 (Ref:275566)   #11
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The scary part is, there are morons on the planet that will believe this "because" it was written in print.
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Old 1 May 2002, 13:02 (Ref:275570)   #12
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On the news in Australia they began reporting the incident as JPM's fault. fools
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Old 1 May 2002, 17:18 (Ref:275725)   #13
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Somehow, I think this was a space filler rather than something they seriously meant.
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Old 1 May 2002, 19:40 (Ref:275858)   #14
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Speed should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I thought Autosport was a serious source...
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Old 1 May 2002, 20:25 (Ref:275908)   #15
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Muzza's comments are very true and they don't just apply to Autosport. I can't remember who told me this but the reason why everyone from planetf1.com went to pitpass.com was because the site owners wanted them to cover the glamour side of things rather than the really interesting stuff that the fans want

And ITVf1.com is even slower than Autosport...
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Old 1 May 2002, 22:31 (Ref:275981)   #16
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Liz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridLiz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I quit buying Autosport except when it has a story I actually want to save. Not the least because they keep raising the price until it would cost me over $550.00 Canadian per year now!

If I were the Senator McCarthy of Motorsport, I would suggest that the growing anti-JPM sentiment in Autosport indicates that TGF worship rules supreme. Fortunately I know better as I had a very candid e-mail from the editor once last year that indicated rather the contrary.

This is definitely another sign of the "dumbing down" of print media. Champ Car magazine before its demise used have a feature called "Hunk of the Month" and tended toward the Teen Magazine side of the equation rather than the pure motorsport side. I think this is a continued reliance on the flawed idea that their main market is 18-24 year olds who have never been to school. In point of fact, the average age of the readers of most motorsport magazines now is about 38!

Last edited by Liz; 1 May 2002 at 22:32.
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Old 1 May 2002, 23:02 (Ref:275992)   #17
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Yeah, well hunk of the month, don't if figure? It's all about money, kids. Bernie's money, Tony's money, Bill's money, and RPM stockholder's money. Money makes the sport go round. Or I should say that money makes the sports/entertainment industry go round. Or is it more correct to call it entertainment/sport?

And it has gotten soooo stupidly expensive, for everyone, that it isn't even a sport anymore. It's all business. About the only thing you can't plan on is when one of your pit guys gets run over. It all, cold, impersonal business.

It's no wonder we never see any honest (different from generic "honest) 220+mph wheel to wheel, mano en mano action. That's bad for business. Corporate bottom line, baby! The red car looks good on tv, out front and all alone. Marlboro's buckos say leave it that way!

Hey, Muzza, where can we go to see some real honest to god sport? Ever been to the midget races? See a good figure eight race?
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Old 1 May 2002, 23:51 (Ref:276010)   #18
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Doc, (and Liz, EERO, Aysedasi, Lee Janotta, cybersdorf and all others that like motorsport as it used to be)

Am I getting too nostalgic (now that I went over the hill, as a post-30 citizen) or is this no longer motorSPORT?

I never, ever thought I would stop signing Autosport, or would not care for F-1 anymore, but both things happened.

Doc, even the fans have been brain-washed. Almost no one gives a damn to what we are saying - we are kind of preaching on the desert.

Worse, there are many Ten Tenths members in this Forum that believe that this businessfication, cartelization, corporatization of F-1 is welcome. I respect their right to differ from me, but I am disappointed with the level of the argumentation presented. In the last two weeks I sent four postings asking people to debate with me, something like "hey, I do not agree with you because of this and that. Why do you think what you do?" And I got no answer to any of my messages.

Also, reading the messages on the threads "Worst F1 driver", "Who was/is the most unluckiest driver" and "Worst F1 team" gave me chills. It seems that to some there was no Formula 1 before 1990. Or what matters is just to say something out of the blue - and then you call that an opinion. Someone ever wrote "I am short sighted, and that's the way I am". Great. Sic transit gloria mundi.

Again, the right to differ is universal and unquestionable. But it is the inability to dialogue, the incapacity to explain yourself, to make understand - but not to agree! -, to debate and to question oneself that appalls me.

So, as some of you hinted in your messages, motorsport journalism is just changing together with the sport itself - and with its fans.

Doc, maybe our time has past...

Or maybe, somewhere out there in a small track with rust guard-rails and cracked tarmac, there are some guys racing clean and dicing hard, driving old junk that puff smoke, not for money or for fame, but just for the chills and thrills of what use to be just a sport.

If you know where they are, let me know, and I will make the trip.

Muzza
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Old 2 May 2002, 00:37 (Ref:276021)   #19
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OK Muzza - I read you. However, you must realise that a forum such as this attracts the entire spectrum of posters, from those posting here to be facetious (and that includes me), contradictory, argumentative, showing they know all and that you don't, showing you who is fountain of motorsport knowledge.......and then there are some who love to discuss and keep a discussion going.
I now make a firm promise to you that I will try to read every post of yours and have a serious (or humourous) discussion with you.
However I hope you will excuse my post in the unluckiest driver ever. I felt really strongly about my post, and deeply sad on the career of Jo Schlesser. It was so ironic, and so full of pathos, that if the French ever wanted to make a great movie about motor racing, this would be the story that would be really wonderful and sad at the same time.

Valve[img]http://www.**************************/smilies/bouncy.gif[/img]
As for the lousiest driver ever, I always post the driver who drives the Garbage truck around here who nearly cleaned me up.
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Old 2 May 2002, 01:08 (Ref:276031)   #20
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As for Autosport, I think that was just one dumb article which reported on a very shallow appreciation of an incident. However, I do access the Autosport web site as well as F1-Live these days, and together with accessing three discussion forums, I just don't have time to read magazines, so I simply do not buy any motorsport magazines unless I am stuck at the Mall (don't ask ) and I then usually go through the MOTORSPORT which is the sister magazine of Autosport. I just cannot apprciate news that is 8 days old (that's how long an air mail subscription takes to arrive in Australia) when I can get it within hours of the event on the internet.

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Old 2 May 2002, 06:14 (Ref:276132)   #21
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Sato san should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridSato san should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think Autosport is still the best magazine of its type on the market to which i subscribe to .

in saying that , i have to say that over the last few years i think it's gone down hill a fair bit with it's taibloid style of headlines and writing . I think nowdays the best part of autosport is ( club autosport ) the national section at the back . that is very good .
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Old 2 May 2002, 07:51 (Ref:276158)   #22
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The luckless Gaden was pinned by Montoya's left front wheel but fortunately the Colombian stopped and the Williams crew was able to free its crew chief
yeah, stopped on top of his foot!
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Old 2 May 2002, 14:34 (Ref:276451)   #23
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I didn't see that silliness,but my beef is similar.F1 racing magazine has writen some stupidly uninformed junk in their time.Peter windsor's articles on his 'friction circle'plus other stuff finally turned me off them.Actually i've seen this rubbish on all websites.They just get desperate to write SOMETHING.
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Old 3 May 2002, 02:01 (Ref:277004)   #24
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Liz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridLiz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Well, we could start a discussion about the 1993 season, or the 1979 season, when racing was not yet "bidness" and you COULD tell the players without a program.

The real bottom line is that there's just nothing to talk about in the current F1 except how bad it is compared to what it was. Everyone in F1 is like the people in Hollywood; they are all locked into a little space where they only associate with people just exactly like themselves, so in taking a poll at the Paddock Club they find that most people are happy with the way things are running *nod head because mouth stuffed with expensive nosh and both hands holding free liquor* so they think everything is fine. Just like the HOllywood who take a poll of the people they know and pronounce that nobody in the USA believes in G*d.

Even when Senna and Prost or Mansell and Piquet dominated the season there were TWO of them. Now there's one who is Mother's Darling and a lot of other guys who'd be winners if Mother would take Baby right on off the grid...but won't be until both Bernie and TGF are gone.

What to do about it? Talk about 1989, or go visit ALMS.
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Old 3 May 2002, 02:58 (Ref:277009)   #25
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maybe, somewhere out there..., there are some guys racing clean and dicing hard,... not for money or for fame, but just for the chills and thrills of what use to be just a sport.

If you know where they are, let me know, and I will make the trip.

Muzza [/B][/QUOTE]

Muzza, just visit Willow Springs, Road Atlanta, or Summit Point on any WERA or AMA club weekend and you'll see exactly what you described.
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