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Old 21 Jun 2011, 11:47 (Ref:2902816)   #1
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FIA Bans Map Changes Between Quali & Race

They REALLY don't seem to want Seb to dominate this year, do they?

http://en.espnf1.com/fia/motorsport/story/52092.html

I guess we'll go back to a no tyre changes rule and single lap quali if this doesn't work...
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Old 21 Jun 2011, 11:53 (Ref:2902822)   #2
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browney should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Can't we just ban Charlie Whiting from messing with the rules mid season instead?

This has been a fantastic season, I can't believe that they want to mess with it. I used to have a lot of respect for Charlie but after the last few weeks, I have very little anymore.
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Old 21 Jun 2011, 12:18 (Ref:2902840)   #3
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So they don't want the teams to waste fuel?

[SarcasmAlertOn]Maybe they shouldn't have races like Singapore where they waste a gazillion kilowatts more for light around the circuit alone. Though I`d attempt boycotting going to all them Tilkodromes. Should save some fuel as well[SarcasmAlertOff]

It is the old game of outbraking fairly too successful teams and drivers. Pretty poor attempts really.
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Old 21 Jun 2011, 12:18 (Ref:2902841)   #4
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Can't we just ban Charlie Whiting from messing with the rules mid season instead?

This has been a fantastic season, I can't believe that they want to mess with it. I used to have a lot of respect for Charlie but after the last few weeks, I have very little anymore.
surely as an employeee Charlie just does what Bernie tells him !
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Old 21 Jun 2011, 12:33 (Ref:2902850)   #5
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So they don't want the teams to waste fuel?

[SarcasmAlertOn]Maybe they shouldn't have races like Singapore where they waste a gazillion kilowatts more for light around the circuit alone. Though I`d attempt boycotting going to all them Tilkodromes. Should save some fuel as well[SarcasmAlertOff]

It is the old game of outbraking fairly too successful teams and drivers. Pretty poor attempts really.
They could easily cope with having half the lights at the singapore track, it really is over-lit.
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Old 21 Jun 2011, 13:10 (Ref:2902869)   #6
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You are not allowed to change anything else on the car to change performance once in Parc Ferme, so why should you be allowed to change engine map?
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Old 21 Jun 2011, 15:09 (Ref:2902924)   #7
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Agreed - I don't know why this wasn't implimented a few seasons ago..?!

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Old 21 Jun 2011, 15:28 (Ref:2902927)   #8
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surely as an employeee Charlie just does what Bernie tells him !
Surely that's the case! One only has to look at Charlie's background to see who he takes orders from................
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Old 21 Jun 2011, 15:34 (Ref:2902930)   #9
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The FIA is getting worse by the minute...
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Old 21 Jun 2011, 16:08 (Ref:2902943)   #10
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devil_angel should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Wow Bernie's got F1 by the neck!
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Old 21 Jun 2011, 16:12 (Ref:2902945)   #11
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luke g28 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridluke g28 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Meh ill be surprised if it changes the balance that much. If it does and Redbull end up not winning for the rest of the season then that would leave a pretty sour taste.
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Old 21 Jun 2011, 17:40 (Ref:2902986)   #12
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fourWheelDrift should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridfourWheelDrift should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridfourWheelDrift should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridfourWheelDrift should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Meh ill be surprised if it changes the balance that much. If it does and Redbull end up not winning for the rest of the season then that would leave a pretty sour taste.
It's a lose lose situation isn't it. If it makes a big difference it'll leave a sour taste and if it doesn't what was the point! Why can't they just leave well alone until next season.
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Old 21 Jun 2011, 17:44 (Ref:2902992)   #13
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Red Bull not winning would suit me just fine, Ferrari needs to win at all costs!!1
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Old 21 Jun 2011, 18:02 (Ref:2903004)   #14
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surely as an employeee Charlie just does what Bernie tells him !
He's technically an employee of the FIA, so Jean Todt is his boss.

Ferrari have been saying for ages that Silverstone will be the acid test and it looks like they're right. Chassis-wise it could have been made for Red Bull, but...
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Old 21 Jun 2011, 18:06 (Ref:2903005)   #15
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surely the maps are selectable on the steering wheel anyway? so the "qualifying" map would always be there, as would the "race" maps, "wet" map "the safety car" maps all selectable by the driver, so surely this will have no effect anyway? unless they are planning to prevent the driver from changed the map on the wheel. which could lead to some interesting scenarios "oops i meant to press the drinks button and caught the map knob by accident"

seems like a weird rule to implement that wont have any effect. certainly Autosport were reporting it as if the cars had to have maps downloaded by a laptop to change them. whcih is a bit far of the mark.
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Old 21 Jun 2011, 20:25 (Ref:2903103)   #16
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Whether it is banning off-throttle EBD or changing engine settings between qualifying and race, I maintain there are no rule change here. The FIA has judged these practises to be against the existing rules. From a legal standing point, I think the FIA is right on this one.
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Old 21 Jun 2011, 21:11 (Ref:2903132)   #17
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maybe i missed something in the article (or more likely have no idea what they are talking about) but this seems like it will have more of an adverse effect on every team except for Red Bull.

im just guessing but in trying to keep up with Red Bull, the other teams are forced to be more aggressive in qualifying and hence taking more advantage of this specific engine mapping strategy. in fact to me it sounds like something the teams trying to make the 107% cut off would be most willing to do.

again this bit of technical talk is lost on me, but would i be correct in saying that this is more of a problem the further back on the grid you go?
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Old 21 Jun 2011, 21:25 (Ref:2903141)   #18
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surely the maps are selectable on the steering wheel anyway? so the "qualifying" map would always be there, as would the "race" maps, "wet" map "the safety car" maps all selectable by the driver, so surely this will have no effect anyway? unless they are planning to prevent the driver from changed the map on the wheel. which could lead to some interesting scenarios "oops i meant to press the drinks button and caught the map knob by accident"

seems like a weird rule to implement that wont have any effect. certainly Autosport were reporting it as if the cars had to have maps downloaded by a laptop to change them. which is a bit far of the mark.
It's not quite that simple. The drivers only have at their disposal the maps that have been approved by for use by the FIA.

If the FIA decides to ban this one and it is then found on a car, that would be instant disqualification via the Stewards. The FIA has at least two full-time Software Delegates to keep an eye on this kind of thing.
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Old 21 Jun 2011, 22:19 (Ref:2903176)   #19
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Whether it is banning off-throttle EBD or changing engine settings between qualifying and race, I maintain there are no rule change here. The FIA has judged these practises to be against the existing rules. From a legal standing point, I think the FIA is right on this one.
So what are they going to enforce now, a one map engine setting rule?
Goldustmini is right here, the maps are changed with a flick of a switch.
Even my road car can do this.

Last edited by wnut; 21 Jun 2011 at 22:36.
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Old 21 Jun 2011, 23:55 (Ref:2903219)   #20
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surely as an employeee Charlie just does what Bernie tells him !
I think you will find that Charlie works for the FIA...
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Old 22 Jun 2011, 00:29 (Ref:2903226)   #21
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Goldustmini is right here, the maps are changed with a flick of a switch.
Even my road car can do this.
Let me put this another way. Yes, you can change the maps in your road car with a flick of a switch, but only between the maps that that the car manufacturer has fitted.

It's the same in F1. The drivers can change the maps with the flick of a switch (actually I think it's the twist of a knob) but only between the maps that the FIA has authorized the team to install. If they cross one off the permitted list then the team cannot install it. QED.
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Old 22 Jun 2011, 07:40 (Ref:2903291)   #22
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So what are they going to enforce now, a one map engine setting rule?
Goldustmini is right here, the maps are changed with a flick of a switch.
Even my road car can do this.
Drivers have three engine maps available to them. It takes about a mandatory 90 seconds to change the engine map. With the current interpretation of the regulations, teams won't be allowed to install one or more new engine maps between qualifying and race. With the current regulations containing the post-qualifying parc fermé this ruling is legally correct.

One could argue about the desirability of this ruling from an entertainment point of view. However, that's another discussion.
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Old 22 Jun 2011, 08:19 (Ref:2903309)   #23
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I think you will find that Charlie works for the FIA...
Yeah, sure he does.............................
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Old 22 Jun 2011, 09:09 (Ref:2903340)   #24
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Drivers have three engine maps available to them. It takes about a mandatory 90 seconds to change the engine map. With the current interpretation of the regulations, teams won't be allowed to install one or more new engine maps between qualifying and race. With the current regulations containing the post-qualifying parc fermé this ruling is legally correct.

One could argue about the desirability of this ruling from an entertainment point of view. However, that's another discussion.
Thanks, that makes sense.

And for entertainment, we now (maybe) won't have SV disapearing in to the distance during qualifying, but having much less race pace. Might make it a bit more interesting!
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Old 22 Jun 2011, 10:08 (Ref:2903377)   #25
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And for entertainment, we now (maybe) won't have SV disapearing in to the distance during qualifying, but having much less race pace. Might make it a bit more interesting!
This remains to be seen. Now the starting grid is even more likely to be ordered to the relative race pace. Hence, the fastest car in the race is more likely to start from pole position. And how are drivers going to overtake a faster one? This is one of the main reasons why I still oppose the post-qualifying parc fermé. I consider this piece of legislation to be against the spirit of motorsport.
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