[Tech Issue] The Sound Of The V6 Turbo PU..

[wnut]

Well somebody better start correcting the mess soon

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns29935.html


"The tragic mistake was with the choice of this type (turbo V6) of engine," the former Renault boss said.
"With the noise, they killed the excitement and replaced it with technology that the public does not care about. Add that these power units are expensive and the circle is closed," added Briatore.
"I remain of the opinion that F1 should be a championship for drivers, not for constructors.
"It's not that I support the idea of a one-make championship, but if you introduce a technology where someone like Mercedes has a huge advantage, the basic interest in formula one declines." Briatore

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by wnut

Well somebody better start correcting the mess soon

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns29935.html


"The tragic mistake was with the choice of this type (turbo V6) of engine," the former Renault boss said.
"With the noise, they killed the excitement and replaced it with technology that the public does not care about. Add that these power units are expensive and the circle is closed," added Briatore.
"I remain of the opinion that F1 should be a championship for drivers, not for constructors.
"It's not that I support the idea of a one-make championship, but if you introduce a technology where someone like Mercedes has a huge advantage, the basic interest in formula one declines." Briatore

I take the backseat driving with a grain of salt. Also, to the comments about "championship for drivers, not for constructors", yeah, we can fight about that until the end of time, but I will say that someone like Briatore will be a fan of any series in which he is the winner regardless of how it is configured. Keep changing it until I come out on top... Then it is correct.

To the point of someone needs to fix this mess. See below...

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Is this because Renault don't think they can deliver I wonder ?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117657

Hello!? Blind leading the blind? Again the loser wanting to continue to shuffle the deck until they come up a winner. But in this scenario they want to make sure that the entry fee into the game is cheap. I don't blame them, you don't want to be playing an expensive game while you wait for your chance to come out a winner.

In all seriousness, this is all diversion, deflection and distraction. Blame the PSUs for all the is wrong. And even then, let the costs be damned. Why complain about PSU costs and then... continue to tweak the spec of the same basic PSU to ensure high development costs?

Richard

[wnut]

http://www.gizmag.com/cannae-reactio...pulsion/33210/

Cannae / EmDrive future power of F1


Even beyond that, Shawyer claims that the second generation of his fuel-less thrusters, based on superconductor technology, will be capable of producing an impressive specific thrust of 30 kN per kW of input energy. "Thus for 1 kilowatt (typical of the power in a microwave oven) a static thrust of 3 tonnes (3.3 tons) can be obtained, which is enough to support a large car. This is clearly adequate for terrestrial transport applications."


Technoloy for those interested

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I take the backseat driving with a grain of salt. Also, to the comments about "championship for drivers, not for constructors", yeah, we can fight about that until the end of time, but I will say that someone like Briatore will be a fan of any series in which he is the winner regardless of how it is configured. Keep changing it until I come out on top... Then it is correct.

To the point of someone needs to fix this mess. See below...


Hello!? Blind leading the blind? Again the loser wanting to continue to shuffle the deck until they come up a winner. But in this scenario they want to make sure that the entry fee into the game is cheap. I don't blame them, you don't want to be playing an expensive game while you wait for your chance to come out a winner.

In all seriousness, this is all diversion, deflection and distraction. Blame the PSUs for all the is wrong. And even then, let the costs be damned. Why complain about PSU costs and then... continue to tweak the spec of the same basic PSU to ensure high development costs?

Richard

The fact remains that these power units may assist the manufacturers involved in promoting their technology, they have not been well received by the general fan and the show is not good enough to promote F1 itself.

Also the more entrants that can make a decent living out of F1 the more healthy the category will be.
Currently only a few established players are entitled to the lion's share of the wealth.

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by wnut

they have not been well received by the general fan

I keep hearing this but what I have seen over the last year or so is more like:

They presented a fantastic opportunity to enhance the popularity of F1 by showcasing technology while making the sport more family friendly and improving it's image, but in a massive case of sour grapes were deliberately sabotaged by the sports "promoter" and a number of participants who were embarassed by their own failure to measure up to the performance of the most successful team.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by wnut

Well somebody better start correcting the mess soon

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns29935.html


"The tragic mistake was with the choice of this type (turbo V6) of engine," the former Renault boss said.
"With the noise, they killed the excitement and replaced it with technology that the public does not care about. Add that these power units are expensive and the circle is closed," added Briatore.
"I remain of the opinion that F1 should be a championship for drivers, not for constructors.
"It's not that I support the idea of a one-make championship, but if you introduce a technology where someone like Mercedes has a huge advantage, the basic interest in formula one declines." Briatore

Flavio Briatore, friend of Ecclestone there.

Now to our driver correspondent Sebastien Vettel.

[VIVA GT]

I have to say that (as much as it grieves me), I agree with Renault!
Last season the high cost of the PSU's was cited as the major reason for the increased cost of competing in F1, and therefore the reason that so many teams found themselves in 'financial difficulties'.
It's simply not possible to suddenly expect an engine designed within certain constraints to produce (say) another 25% power reliably without changing the design of components, and this will obviously have a cost.
I'd love the cars to have 1000BHP, and do agree that it would make them more spectacular to watch, plus, more importantly, it would also make them more difficult to drive (as long as driver aids and aerodynamics are controlled down) which would mean 'more special' drivers are needed to drive them competitively, but the cost aspect also has to be considered. (Or as my mate says in the pub, we can drink as much as we like, but who's paying?)

[Knowlesy]

Everyone is aware of the horrendous cost increase (although surely that will flatten out at some point), so why the constant need to add on "not loud enough, general public is upset blah blah" all the time?

[wolfhound]

I felt that what we had last year in terms of racing was good with all the changes to the cars etc.
The problems as I saw them we had a promoter (Bernie) on about how bad the engines sounded from before any fan got to hear them.
Bernie was using any thing he could fault with the new engines and the new F1 as a means to divert attention away from the real problems he had last year. These were his court case(s), the poor distrbution of FOM money and the skewed governance structure that he devised.

We had some very good races last year and have to thak Mercedes for letting their drivers race each other unlike some other dominant teams of the past. We also saw some great scraps on track through the field. The only problems for Bernie was his mates at Ferrari and Red Bull were not involved.

[Knowlesy]

Spot on.

[VIVA GT]

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by wnut

The fact remains that these power units may assist the manufacturers involved in promoting their technology, they have not been well received by the general fan and the show is not good enough to promote F1 itself.

To your first point, that seems like a win for the PSU manufactures. And frankly it is exactly what they asked for. To the second point, I agree that there is a percentage who miss the prior style engines (And I do as well to a degree). But I am HIGHLY skeptical that the new PSU are having any type of serious negative impact on the ability of F1 to promote itself. The negative impact on promotion is someone like BE who does nothing but walk around slandering the product he is supposed to be promoting. Cancer from within. See comment below about diversion and delusion.

What currently bothers me about additional changes to the PSU spec is that.... Apparently a lot of thought went into the current spec and there is lots of griping about it AFTER a year of use. So why do we think that the same people who came up with the current solution are going to be able to fix it via a variety of knee jerk reactive thinking?!?!

Originally Posted by wnut

Also the more entrants that can make a decent living out of F1 the more healthy the category will be.
Currently only a few established players are entitled to the lion's share of the wealth.

I 100% agree. It is somewhat a different topic from PSU, but the relationship (in my mind) is that instead of dealing with the real (and hard) problems, everyone likes to say "look over here at the PSU". Diversion at worst or self delusion at best.

Richard

[wolfhound]

Another factor in the current power unit situation is that the current units were planned to last at least 5 years with restricted development. This meant that the engine manufacturers could workout a budget over that period.
If you go adding 25% more power effectively a new engine will be needed as all the components of the engine + the transmission + the brakes + the tyres will have to be redesigned accordingly.
The change from the V8's to the current engine did not have a significant power difference although torque is another matter.

[goingjag]

I'm not sure how effective PU change freezes are in cost savings. It looked to me that the major advantage to Mercedes was they had the best balance of regenerative braking taking into consideration tract conditions. It seemed to me that was what Kimi struggled with the most is stopping the rear from doing whatever it wanted under regenerative braking. That is probably a combination of software and some hardware that probably doesn't even fall under the PU freeze or this years chit system for working on PU does it?

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

I felt that what we had last year in terms of racing was good with all the changes to the cars etc.
The problems as I saw them we had a promoter (Bernie) on about how bad the engines sounded from before any fan got to hear them.
Bernie was using any thing he could fault with the new engines and the new F1 as a means to divert attention away from the real problems he had last year. These were his court case(s), the poor distrbution of FOM money and the skewed governance structure that he devised.

We had some very good races last year and have to thak Mercedes for letting their drivers race each other unlike some other dominant teams of the past. We also saw some great scraps on track through the field. The only problems for Bernie was his mates at Ferrari and Red Bull were not involved.

+1