[Official] Round 9: British Grand Prix 2014

[Rennen]

So, for a Family Ticket there has to be 2 Adults to take a child...Hmmmm and if you are a single parent or your 'other half' doesn't like motor racing, you can't get a family ticket then!

Oh, and as I understand the grandstand ticket prices on their web-site Babies are free if they sit on a parents lap okay fine...but a 3 year old has to have a FULL Price Adult Ticket !!!!

[Tucky]

And people wonder why casual fans don't attend Silverstone. I've been living off bread and water for the last few months, and even after paying for a 3 day ticket, grandstand, parking, camping etc. they still turn around and say "oh, by the way, we've decided you're allowed access to the centre and copse, but only if you ring us and pay even more money". Suffice to say I've already paid enough and they're not getting their greedy little mitts on a single penny more of my money.

[pauln]

Let's get one thing straight here. If you want to grouse about ticket prices the people to grouse at aren't Silverstone. The ones gouging the money out of the sport and Bernie and the financial companies who own F1. If he wasn't set on squeezing every last penny out of the circuits, they wouldn't have to charge as much for entry.

[bella]

weekend general admission in hungary for a fantastic view: £85.

just saying.

[Tucky]

Originally Posted by pauln

Let's get one thing straight here. If you want to grouse about ticket prices the people to grouse at aren't Silverstone. The ones gouging the money out of the sport and Bernie and the financial companies who own F1. If he wasn't set on squeezing every last penny out of the circuits, they wouldn't have to charge as much for entry.

Will all due respect, if you look at the other circuits, the majority of them are a lot cheaper than silverstone. If you look at the cheapest ticket prices a couple of years ago, the Canadian and Australian tickets cost just over £60, whereas Silverstone was pushing nearly £150. Yes Bernie hasn't helped by only allowing the organisers to keep ticket money, but if other places can host GP's with competitive prices then why not Silverstone? IMO, placing the blame wholly on Bernie is just Silverstone trying to wash their hands of responsibility and use it as an excuse to gain as large a profit margin as they can. Having said that, the UK government aren't helping by refusing to give some funds to the grand prix unlike a lot of other races.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Tucky

Will all due respect, if you look at the other circuits, the majority of them are a lot cheaper than silverstone. If you look at the cheapest ticket prices a couple of years ago, the Canadian and Australian tickets cost just over £60, whereas Silverstone was pushing nearly £150. Yes Bernie hasn't helped by only allowing the organisers to keep ticket money, but if other places can host GP's with competitive prices then why not Silverstone? IMO, placing the blame wholly on Bernie is just Silverstone trying to wash their hands of responsibility and use it as an excuse to gain as large a profit margin as they can. Having said that, the UK government aren't helping by refusing to give some funds to the grand prix unlike a lot of other races.

With respect, you are looking at this through the wrong end of a telescope. It is not the UK government's place to subsidise a motor race that is enjoyed by a minority of people, and it is only because other countries use their taxpayers' money that those GPs still exist.

The British government assists the UK motor industry, including the motor-sport part (excluding the actual racing) as much as it can, and at this moment in time, provides an excellent tax environment in which it can flourish. It does so because it earns the UK £billions every year, and employs many thousands of people, many of whom earn very high salaries.

If you look at Silverstone's annual accounts, I think that you will find that the British Grand Prix is a loss leader, and it is only able to continue because the BRDC sold off all the land surrounding the track..

You also have to consider the matter of supply and demand. I can't speak for this year's event, but pretty well every previous year demand has exceeded supply, and to a certain extent, that drives the pricing stucture. Silverstone (the BRDC) has to mitigate it's loss as best it can, and if "fans" are willing, albeit grudgeingly, to pay to fill up the place, then that is the price that "fans" have to pay.

I am not saying that is right or wrong, but that is the reality of life in the grown-up world.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Tucky

Will all due respect, if you look at the other circuits, the majority of them are a lot cheaper than silverstone. If you look at the cheapest ticket prices a couple of years ago, the Canadian and Australian tickets cost just over £60, whereas Silverstone was pushing nearly £150. Yes Bernie hasn't helped by only allowing the organisers to keep ticket money, but if other places can host GP's with competitive prices then why not Silverstone? IMO, placing the blame wholly on Bernie is just Silverstone trying to wash their hands of responsibility and use it as an excuse to gain as large a profit margin as they can. Having said that, the UK government aren't helping by refusing to give some funds to the grand prix unlike a lot of other races.

Base price for Chinese GP was said to be 1980 yuan (about $300USD). Can the average Shanghai wage earner afford that? Never.

The simple fact is that Bernie screws everyone for as much as he can get to keep the circus rolling. The costs are then set by the promoters to try to recover as much as they can so they may be able to break even or not lose money.

F1 is not a family sport.
Its an entertainment for rich people, like Bernie.
There is a lot of elitism here which may be one reason why it has lost so much of its universal appeal for many.

[Tucky]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

With respect, you are looking at this through the wrong end of a telescope. It is not the UK government's place to subsidise a motor race that is enjoyed by a minority of people, and it is only because other countries use their taxpayers' money that those GPs still exist.

The British government assists the UK motor industry, including the motor-sport part (excluding the actual racing) as much as it can, and at this moment in time, provides an excellent tax environment in which it can flourish. It does so because it earns the UK £billions every year, and employs many thousands of people, many of whom earn very high salaries.

If you look at Silverstone's annual accounts, I think that you will find that the British Grand Prix is a loss leader, and it is only able to continue because the BRDC sold off all the land surrounding the track..

You also have to consider the matter of supply and demand. I can't speak for this year's event, but pretty well every previous year demand has exceeded supply, and to a certain extent, that drives the pricing stucture. Silverstone (the BRDC) has to mitigate it's loss as best it can, and if "fans" are willing, albeit grudgeingly, to pay to fill up the place, then that is the price that "fans" have to pay.

I am not saying that is right or wrong, but that is the reality of life in the grown-up world.

I understand that it's the reality of life. It just frustrates me when you look at other grand prix's pricing. In the end, nothing we say on here will make a difference (unless you're watching Bernie then stop screwing us over!)

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Tucky

I understand that it's the reality of life. It just frustrates me when you look at other grand prix's pricing. In the end, nothing we say on here will make a difference (unless you're watching Bernie then stop screwing us over!)

This is Mr Ecclestone's preferred way of doing business; he squeezes until the pips pop.

And it's not only Silverstone that he does it it. He has recently been "leaning" on Montreal over the renewal of their contract, and today he started firing the first warning shots across the bows of Monza. What complicates matters for Monza is that Ferrari owns Mugello, and they have long harboured having the Grand Prix there. And don't forget, Ferrari has a special relationship with Mr Ecclestone.

[JamesH]

Although I would love to take my F1 mad son to a GP I refuse to pay these sorts of prices. That quite a few kart session for the little chap. I won't even pay to watch on Sky.

But, I do intend to take him to various club meetings, 750MC etc. The prices are much cheaper, you get to walk around the whole circuit and the paddock, and the entry fee for him, at 8 years of age is zero.

The racing is usually pretty good (now that I've stopped) as well!

[ECW Dan Selby]

It's reading stuff in this thread that actually makes me think all the circuits should bash their heads together and all agree to not renew their contracts.

Could Bernie find 20 news countries with endless money to build new tracks??

Selby

[bella]

i wonder if circuits have just got the supply/demand balance wrong with ticket prices? there seems to be a mentality at some events that you can charge whatever you need to and the spectators will still pay it. how far are we across the "too much money" line? people now seem to expect more of an event for their money. so if they lowered the price a little would they be able to get maximum from their infrastructure (parking, traffic management, grandstands) with minimum expectations from fans?

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

Could Bernie find 20 news countries with endless money to build new tracks??

Selby

I doubt it but there a few of the current ones where the operators or owners are good mate's of Bernie, Australia and Austria being the prime examples.

However an organisation of the circuit owners could be very powerful if they were able to unite as there are very few circuits outside of F1 that have an FIA grade 1 status. Just a few that have held GP's in the last few years.

[ECW Dan Selby]

Wasn't there talk of the circuits getting together not too long ago?

I think it might help to reduce this madness a little..

Selby

[Sodemo]

I last attended the british GP in 2004 and I think we paid £95 each for a weekend ticket, which even back then, I thought was outrageous. I refuse to go now, ticket prices have continued to rise, I hear it's more like £160 for a weekend ticket? I had attended a few of the free silverstone tests, but they even charge for those now.

The trouble is, this high price structure isn't just reserved for F1, you go to any event at silverstone and then compare the same event at another uk track, you can bet the price is at least £5 higher.

Another event at silverstone that I find to be a huge rip off is the silverstone classic. If I recall, they wanted £65 for one day entry last year. I went to the oulton park gold cup on the Saturday instead, cost me £5.

[LC2guy]

Jeez, this makes Silverstone look cheap .... from Joe Sawards Blog;

Curious about ticket prices, I went on the Web to look at ticket prices for the Men’s Final at Wimbledon, on the same day as the British GP, and found that I could secure one for $8,200. I also looked at the World Cup Final in Brazil and was curious to see that I could get a ticket for between $5,500 and $13,500, not including transportation costs and hotels and so on. The price varies according to the number of seats available for a big event so, for example, a Super Bowl ticket for around $800 is to be expected if one buys directly from the NFL, but the secondary market will bump the price up considerably.

And it is not just sports. If you want to go to the New Year’s Day concert in the Musikverein in Vienna, you have to put your name down for a lottery each year (a year ahead of the next concert) and you must be prepared to pay $1,275 if you want a decent seat. If your number does not come up then the only option is to buy the tickets on the secondary market and the prices multiply accordingly.

So, in the overall scheme of things, F1 tickets are not that expensive. People with normal real world salaries need to save up to be able to afford them but they are not numbers from outer space as is seen in some other events.

[Moneyseeker]

Not direct comparisons though, I don't think the World Cup Final which is every 4 years can be compared to the BGP! Similarly Wimbledon is the worlds most famous and prestigious tournament, with a very limited number of seats to sell - so supply and demand is the main pricing factor.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by bella

i wonder if circuits have just got the supply/demand balance wrong with ticket prices? there seems to be a mentality at some events that you can charge whatever you need to and the spectators will still pay it. how far are we across the "too much money" line? people now seem to expect more of an event for their money. so if they lowered the price a little would they be able to get maximum from their infrastructure (parking, traffic management, grandstands) with minimum expectations from fans?

I think as far as Silverstone is concerned they had a certain amount of resistance to ticket pricing last year, although grandstands do well as there are a finite number of seats and good viewing positions.

I know that this year they are opening the infield under the auspices of the 50th BGP celebration and are throwing a lot more content at the weekend. I wonder if this will become a regular occurence, enabling them to sell more tickets and passes that provide a more interesting experience - maybe they will be a premuim level in future years?

I can't see that Silverstone can ever reduce ticket prices - they have often sold out, but I haven't heard that the event is sold out overall this year, although grandstands may well be.

The biggest issue is the FOM fee, I believe that it currently stands @£15M with a 5% escalator, so it's not hard to see where the fee will end up at the end of the 17 year term and more or less the sole funder of this is ticket prices which have already gone up over 40% since the new BGP contract.

There is a limit to how many people they can fit in the circuit and reasonably get there logistically with the infrastracture around Silverstone, so maybe the strategy will be to create more premuim levels of tickets - more temporary grandstands, other levels of general entry with some added benefits, try nd increase prime seating prices more as they are limited availablity.

Maybe they won't do any of the above and hope that the Silverstone business overall will increase to cover the cost, but I think this has been a hope for several years

As a LIVE televised event you are also vulnerable to those who decide cost of tickets, etc and effort in getting there is no longer worth the experience, so they stay at home and watch it. On the Sky package that I have I get Sky F1 bundled in as an HD subscriber which costs me an extra £10 p.m. or £120 per year, less than a general admin ticket to the BGP and for which I can see all GP weekends LIVE.

[bella]

they're all ridiculous comparisons to be honest - you can't put an event where the sunday crowds aren't far off 100,000 (silverstone) next to ones which are limited to at the most, 10,000.

[Sodemo]

I got a court 1 Wimbledon ticket for about 15 quid. This was back in 2003 and it was in the afternoon with one of the "sold on" tickets.

[bella]

i'm sure i know someone who scored semi final tickets, if not final at wimbledon in the normal ballot too... for less than f1 money.

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by LC2guy

Jeez, this makes Silverstone look cheap .... from Joe Sawards Blog;

Curious about ticket prices, I went on the Web to look at ticket prices for the Men’s Final at Wimbledon, on the same day as the British GP, and found that I could secure one for $8,200. I also looked at the World Cup Final in Brazil and was curious to see that I could get a ticket for between $5,500 and $13,500, not including transportation costs and hotels and so on. The price varies according to the number of seats available for a big event so, for example, a Super Bowl ticket for around $800 is to be expected if one buys directly from the NFL, but the secondary market will bump the price up considerably.

And it is not just sports. If you want to go to the New Year’s Day concert in the Musikverein in Vienna, you have to put your name down for a lottery each year (a year ahead of the next concert) and you must be prepared to pay $1,275 if you want a decent seat. If your number does not come up then the only option is to buy the tickets on the secondary market and the prices multiply accordingly.

So, in the overall scheme of things, F1 tickets are not that expensive. People with normal real world salaries need to save up to be able to afford them but they are not numbers from outer space as is seen in some other events.

You need to take in to account many other factors before making such comparisons.

1) Number of worldwide fans
2) Capacity of stadia
3) Number of events per year

When you factor in those, F1 races are expensive. There are 19 races per year, each circuit lets say 100k capacity, that 1.9M attendees per year, compared with 1 Wimbledon final per year with capacity of 10k.

I'm not sure what the average F1 circuit ticket is - lets say $100. Wimbledon ticket at $8.2k. Income from F1 tickets 1.9M*100 = $190M. Income from Wimbledon final tickets $8.2k*10k = $82M.

Someone's making some profit somewhere...

[Lancsbreaker]

Hmmm - I very much doubt that everyone watching the men's final will have paid $8200......I suspect that that is the "secondary market" price - and now Murray is out it may drop

This: http://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/ticke...561699698.html seems to show a Centre Court ticket for final day as £148......a tad less than Joe quotes.......Although hard to get, I imagine!

So the "sticker" price is a bit less than Silverstone's general admission price.

I'm not an apologist for Grand Prix pricing, however - I haven't been able to afford to go for years. What does amaze me is how it seems so hard to cater for around 100,000 people to attend such a large venue, when Old Trafford and several other larger Football grounds manage to fit 50K people into a much smaller space, every other weekend.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

Hmmm - I very much doubt that everyone watching the men's final will have paid $8200......I suspect that that is the "secondary market" price - and now Murray is out it may drop

This: http://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/ticke...561699698.html seems to show a Centre Court ticket for final day as £148......a tad less than Joe quotes.......Although hard to get, I imagine!

So the "sticker" price is a bit less than Silverstone's general admission price.

I'm not an apologist for Grand Prix pricing, however - I haven't been able to afford to go for years. What does amaze me is how it seems so hard to cater for around 100,000 people to attend such a large venue, when Old Trafford and several other larger Football grounds manage to fit 50K people into a much smaller space, every other weekend.

Several factors...

City locations with largely local audience
Many public transport links to football grounds - train, bus, tube, tram, etc depending which
Away fans using organised transport to get there - coaches - 50 people in one vehicle.

Don't forget Silverstone is in the middle of nowhere, miles from Milton Keynes and Northampton where public transport links are and is on a road network already busy with local and commuting/HGV traffic using the A43 to get to M40 or Oxford.

I worked for a business on the circuit several years ago and we used to avoid the place from Thursday onwards.

[chillibowl]

i would compare the most expensive Wimbledon tickets to a paddock pass in F1 which i believe starts at around 5K and goes up considerably from there.

http://tickets.formula1.com/

link to F1.com ticket page.

Silverstone does seem to be a bit on the high side but not excessively so considering one would expect demand to be highest there imo.

oddly (and off topic) but if you click on the 2014 Russian GP is says tickets are not on sale yet.