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Old 12 Jan 2013, 20:19 (Ref:3188288)   #1
105 Mad
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105 Mad should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
FIA HTP

So, here's a question. I want to apply for an FIA HTP on a car which appears on the FIA list but with no original papers available. Is this possible & what would the tech inspector use as a reference?
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Old 12 Jan 2013, 21:20 (Ref:3188308)   #2
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
What car is it?
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Old 12 Jan 2013, 21:20 (Ref:3188309)   #3
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So, here's a question. I want to apply for an FIA HTP on a car which appears on the FIA list but with no original papers available. Is this possible & what would the tech inspector use as a reference?
At a guess- Period evidence? Supplied by you if not already available......

Find out who MSA would use for inspection and talk to them.
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Old 13 Jan 2013, 09:06 (Ref:3188473)   #4
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do you know the homologation number, and as Terence says, whats the car . . . spomeone will have a copy . . . or could create a copy . . . .
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Old 13 Jan 2013, 11:33 (Ref:3188506)   #5
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do you know the homologation number, and as Terence says, whats the car . . . spomeone will have a copy . . . or could create a copy . . . .
I would guess from 105 Mad's post that he has the number and on the list it says the form is missing- as it does on several.....

Alfa of some sort?
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Old 14 Jan 2013, 19:19 (Ref:3189075)   #6
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I would guess from 105 Mad's post that he has the number and on the list it says the form is missing- as it does on several.....

Alfa of some sort?
No .......... I think it's one a lot closer to Zeff's heart.
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Old 14 Jan 2013, 19:23 (Ref:3189076)   #7
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I've got all the Ford ones . . . . you just need to ask the right people . . .
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Old 14 Jan 2013, 20:16 (Ref:3189107)   #8
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No .......... I think it's one a lot closer to Zeff's heart.

Ah,so its a Scooter.
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Old 15 Jan 2013, 20:46 (Ref:3189553)   #9
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Scooter?????

Chevy Nova II is the answer, or possibly Malibu/Chevelle.


All homologated pre 66 with 327's
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Old 15 Jan 2013, 21:48 (Ref:3189596)   #10
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Funnily enough, I saw some Italian homologation papers for a Lambretta recently.
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Old 16 Jan 2013, 19:25 (Ref:3190060)   #11
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Scooter?????

Chevy Nova II is the answer, or possibly Malibu/Chevelle.


All homologated pre 66 with 327's
Thought you were looking at a Plymouth?
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Old 16 Jan 2013, 19:51 (Ref:3190079)   #12
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Chevy Nova, Yes! I have so often wondered why no one has done one of these, it was fitted with a 350 high performance engine and the suspension is basically Camaro, I have always wanted to do one of these and shake up the Mustangs! Before I did my Camaro I actually bought a 71 Nova and was seriously contemplating racing it, I recon it would have been good but the 65 even better as it's fits the Pre 66 thing.
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Old 16 Jan 2013, 20:12 (Ref:3190090)   #13
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I guess weight may come into it. If no-one at the time put any thought into homologating it with a few lightweight parts then that could be a handicap.
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Old 16 Jan 2013, 20:24 (Ref:3190100)   #14
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Hi Al, I thought I might hear from you soon.

Peter. Chevy or Plymouth, either really, is all about cubic inches, the more the better.

The Malibu/Chevellle is favourite as it has coils all round, 327, Muncie 4 speed etc. Engine, box etc is lifted pretty much from the period Corvettes so is well sorted.

Also, the Chevy has got to be cheaper to build than anything with a Chrysler badge.

I think the biggest issue with either Chevy's is that they only had drum brakes fitted to the front at that age, can't even find any evidence of discs being available as a dealer option. The Barracuda had discs fitted as a dealer option. Funnily enough they were the same 'Kelsey Hayes' units fitted to the Mustangs.

So before going mad & buying such a beast I need to know if they were homologated with discs?

You see my predicament?

If it proves too difficult I'll stick to the Alfa.

Paul
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Old 16 Jan 2013, 20:32 (Ref:3190104)   #15
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Hi Moosehead, I didn't see your posting.

The V8 Nova's left the factory weighing about 1300kg so with a bit of race 'trimming' could get down to 1200kg. The Chevelle was a bit more but not that much, maybe 50kg.

The Mustang's are homologated at 1100kg I believe?????

Depending on homologated weight it could still give a great power to weight ratio.

Any more info would be great.

Paul
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Old 16 Jan 2013, 22:36 (Ref:3190186)   #16
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I believe the discs were an option on the Nova sure I read it somewhere when I have researched it as was the High Performance 350 4 barrel engine with 4 speed Muncie. I also believe the factory were more interested in drag racing them at the time.
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Old 17 Jan 2013, 08:59 (Ref:3190393)   #17
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Do you know what the homologation number is?

we had a discussion a while back about the reliant scimitar never being homologated, but it was, as a standard car, and I found the papers
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Old 17 Jan 2013, 10:50 (Ref:3190448)   #18
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105,
You could of course look at a Chev Camaro. I only say that, because after 20+ yrs racing 105s and etc Alfas, the two races I did last year in the newly-acquired 350-inch '69 Camaro were like starting racing all over again. Totally brilliant and if you are used to Alfas then a Camaro is .... different. You get front ventilated discs with a Camaro, just they aren't v. good at stopping a 1400kg beast.

Well worth a try and eligible in the HSCC Historic Road Sports. No idea about FIA homologation, though.
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Old 17 Jan 2013, 11:23 (Ref:3190467)   #19
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Chevy Camaro only came out in 67 though and I would imagine he wants something pre 66. Thats why the Mustang and Falcon have had their own way, move it up a year or so and the Camaro would be king amoungst the Pre 66 brigade and probably what they are worried about.

I dont think its the size of the stock vented discs or the drum brakes that holds the 2nd gen camaro back its those single piston sliding calipers which is why I doubt you will see many out with HSCC. I would be happy to adabt my car to their regs now Post Historics with CTCRC is no more, apart from the brakes as I dont feel comfortable with the standard set up simple as that so its a big problem. I believe the earlier cars and definitely Mustangs had 4 pot calipers and much better but in the early 70's the manufacturers all started going over to the cheaper single piston sliding caliper option.

Last edited by Al Weyman; 17 Jan 2013 at 11:28. Reason: i before e except after c,,,, sometimes!
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Old 17 Jan 2013, 15:14 (Ref:3190569)   #20
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105,
You could of course look at a Chev Camaro. I only say that, because after 20+ yrs racing 105s and etc Alfas, the two races I did last year in the newly-acquired 350-inch '69 Camaro were like starting racing all over again. Totally brilliant and if you are used to Alfas then a Camaro is .... different. You get front ventilated discs with a Camaro, just they aren't v. good at stopping a 1400kg beast
Nick

Similar problems with the Vettes,people seem to overcome it though.
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Old 17 Jan 2013, 19:18 (Ref:3190677)   #21
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I think the vettes are different, four pots or drums depending on engine option unless of course we are talking about later 70,s models which I would imagine had the sliders.
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Old 18 Jan 2013, 00:35 (Ref:3190840)   #22
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Must be pre '66, so counts out any Camaro.

I've never followed the crowd hence running an Alfa, this is why I fancy something different to the usual Mustang/Falcon.

There is of course the Mercury Cyclone /Caliente. It has all the Mustang running gear but in a different body.

Zef, I do have the homologation numbers written down some ware, will let you know what they are.
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Old 18 Jan 2013, 13:46 (Ref:3191101)   #23
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I've never followed the crowd
That's not how I remember our racing I thought that's exactly what we did! This project sounds interesting though Paul.
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Old 18 Jan 2013, 13:54 (Ref:3191104)   #24
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Similar problems with the Vettes,people seem to overcome it though.
'65 model Corvette homologated with vented vented discs all round + 2 pot calipers (different piston sizes to rear) , so with modern pad material stopping not too much of a problem compared to other yanks.

'67 Camaros had front discs with a 2 pot caliper , drums on rear.

Nicks 69 Camaro has the discs but as he says the sliding calipers which not so good.
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Old 18 Jan 2013, 15:13 (Ref:3191119)   #25
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I have just had a good read through the regs of HSCC and they simply make it impossible to race my 2nd gen there as there are some strange anomolies. On the one hand I would have to use the sliding calipers as opposed to the two pots if it was an earlier model and on the other hand the earlier model can weigh in at 1200 odd kilos whereas the 2nd gen has to weigh a massive 1550kgs. Just where is the logic in that they both have the same engine and transmissions and suspensions. I wanted to find somewhere else the 2nd gen could run reasonably competively now Post Historics is no more but they have clearly decided to not allow the model, the 1550kgs is more than the thing weighed new at least the early 2nd gens without federal bumpers. In this age of austerity I would have thought some flexing of the regs would be in everyones interest even if was only being allowed to modify and fit parts from earlier models. Brakes are a safety aspect of a race car, the standard ones fade and are dangerous especially with another 100kgs in ballast to lug around I would have to run to bring it up to spec so its a no no, keep looking.
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