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30 Jun 2009, 09:14 (Ref:2493785)
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#151 | |
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Rookie
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 65
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Regarding costs...again...
I vaguely remember watching Top Gear when James May went rallying in Finland I think? Anyway, the competitors used old cars but after a race (or season, I am not too sure) they had the right to buy another competitors car for a price and the other competitor had to accept it. This limited what people would spend on the cars straight away becuase they would probably not recoup what they spent. Why not introduce a notional or maximum car price and a rule where if a competitor after a race says he wants to buy the car, the fellow competitor *has* to sell it? Oh no...I hear you cry! Why not? If you want to spend lots on your car and don't accept the rule then you are welcome to go spend your limitless funds elsewhere. If you want to accept then spend as much as you believe neccessary to setup your car with the proviso that if you end up with a winning car, someone will buy it and you will have to start again. |
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30 Jun 2009, 09:32 (Ref:2493796)
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#152 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,027
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Quote:
Because we don't want to win by Rory Butcher being forced to sell his car to us for a song that's why. We want to do it ourselves. This has been tried before in many Formulae (National Hot Rods springs to mind) and it NEVER, EVER, works. Why spend hundreds of man-hours working and thinking about your car (not necessarily spending vast sums, just working at it) and then as soon as you finally crack it some other bloke gets his chequebook out. No thanks. In my opinion the only thing this formula (whether Kent or Duratec) needs to get a handle on is the variable costs, mainly tyres. |
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30 Jun 2009, 12:25 (Ref:2493878)
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#153 | |
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Rookie
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 65
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Fair enough but how do you control a variable cost, more importantly, what are our variable costs?
I can think of only race entry, testing and tyres and only tyres are controllable but to what extent? Do we try and find a 'cheaper' alternative and save by increments or perhaps limit the number of tyres used per season, maybe both? Firstly, why should we change tyres? maybe we are thinking about this backwards. If we introduce a tyre limit, those who have been testing in the past will still have a good setup based upon their tyre testing. Introducing a tyre limit would still allow them to run at the top. If we introduce a new race tyre, the top teams will then concentrate on testing to find a good setup with these tyres and would probably determine this quicker than the rest of us by nature of going testing more often. Either way, the top teams still have an advantage. If people seriously want to cut the cost of tyres then a single set should be made to last a season, renewable each season. Punctures are singly replaced and only after scrutineers OK (tyre serial logging etc.). Perhaps one set nominated for qualifying and one for race to even out wear or one set for dry, one for wet? We have no official testing policy, so the top teams can and will still throw set after set onto a car and test. Unless you plan to introduce a testing ban or official session testing only...yeah right! So, I still don't understand which cost you are trying to cut. If you can't afford it then you can't afford it, this is what I understood from day one when I bought my car and went out onto the track. I have a budget which I can 'currently' afford. It does not allow me to go testing at every race nor does it allow me to buy a new set of tyres for each race nor can I enter every race (oulton park only at the moment). This is a club, nowhere is it written that you 'must' enter every race and be competitive and run up at the front and get as many points as possible for you to secure the championship. So I ask again, where are the costs being incurred? |
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30 Jun 2009, 15:33 (Ref:2493964)
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#154 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 4,230
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interesting posts i cannot find a confrontational argument with any of what has been posted
the spirraling costs part i feel refers to the tyres being of a price that is not cheap and has high wear rate so perhaps a change of supplier to a cheaper tyre with better wear rate is a step in the "right" direction or its taken further for this supplier to make a tyre that can run at least half a season before its either 1 second off the pace or worn out testing hard to abolish but worth implemementing a 20 day rule stops young johnny rich kid running every week at the local track ( you cannot beat seat time) with new tyres etc Engines- i think a " fixed price must sell your engine when asked rule" could stop these £4000 new engines coming on stream I dont want to support " sell yr chassis rule" as i believe the owner driver has the right to spend 200 hours a month working on his car to win and another to sit on his ass watching TV to loose- why should this oaf have the right to get a good car for writing out a cheque entry fees well that is also down to racers saying we have had enough/club saying to landowner his rental fee is too high all other costs are wear n tear to suit the drivers own budget cannot be altered |
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30 Jun 2009, 17:42 (Ref:2494027)
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#155 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 280
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Quote:
Well Said! 
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30 Jun 2009, 17:47 (Ref:2494033)
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#156 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 280
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Quote:
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1 Jul 2009, 19:42 (Ref:2494675)
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#157 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5
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A switch away from Avons has got to be a good idea, with tyre technology moving on (which I am assuming has not effected the recipe for ACB9/10) it must be possible to get a tyre with eqivalent grip levels that lasts longer, at a better cost? Even if the tyre is a bit slower its no big deal...
Incidently being cautious I tend not to enter the next round before completing the previous, in case of serious problems / damage (most of our rounds are about 3-4 weeks apart). Just logged on to the entry website after racing last weekend and been robbed of a further 30quid 'Late entry fee'. This is for a race that is over 3 weeks away! My fault entirley - as its usually listed on the entry form - but not on the web system as it happens. Another 30 quid down! In a previous thread the championship / club entry fee was discussed, and what they use the money for - In Classics the CFF register (not BARC) provides the trophies and championship tables, togther with incentives for a free race for new drivers,and a free engine rebuild for the novice champion. So the champ reg is kept to a minimum (only a few pounds) and the club membership is used by the committee to promote the club, attract new drivers, and run social events through the season. |
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1 Jul 2009, 21:49 (Ref:2494750)
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#158 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 4,230
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i refuse to pay late entry fee its either they accept the face value fee or i stay at home
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1 Jul 2009, 22:00 (Ref:2494757)
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#159 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,818
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This is easy the original tyres what Formula Fords were designed to run on are still being made.
They are quicker they last longer they are better and safer in the wet. Plus they are a lot cheaper. Dunlop would love to suply them again.......There is still set up data for most of the cars that are running up to 1992. But as a great man said getting Formula Ford drivers to do something is like hearding cats. |
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2 Jul 2009, 08:45 (Ref:2494912)
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#160 | |||
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Racer
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 300
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Quote:
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2 Jul 2009, 09:30 (Ref:2494931)
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#161 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,229
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Just as a matter of interest, what is the justification fo a 'late entry fee'?
Thought so. None. |
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2 Jul 2009, 10:53 (Ref:2494960)
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#162 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 4,230
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FFMygale is ill heat stroke?!!!!
I was told late entry fee is to cover the orgainser time rejigging forms programme addition or not as case may be also notifying racmsa for insurance and more importantly stops all of the entries coming in at last minute overloading the system I can see where they are coming form but 3- 4 weeks closing date before the event who are they kidding!! 1 car to repair or prepare? 2 workshift not sorted that far ahead? 3 budget not available to nearer the time? these are just 3 basic reasons why many guys cannot enter in advance of closing date |
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2 Jul 2009, 11:20 (Ref:2494973)
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#163 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,229
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Not a big job to re jig an entry form as I am pretty sure a pc will be used.
And I am sure there will be blanket cover from the MSA, with actual numbers being sent after the race, not before. Still, £30 is a laugh. |
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2 Jul 2009, 13:28 (Ref:2495041)
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#164 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 4,230
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its the paper shuffling time involved they moan about
the racmsa insurance is done per car entry in yr 200 quid entry fee is 60-80 quids worth of premium and ALL names etc must be on racmsa sheet at HQ by mid day on the friday its another reason why u cant turn up on the day to race big hoo har over last minute driver change i do see where they are coming from but i still fikit im not paying it so i sit at home thinking some other ****** has won that race !! |
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2 Jul 2009, 13:55 (Ref:2495047)
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#165 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,767
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You would think with current technology that all this stuff could be done in minutes. Email, instant messaging etc. It seems that it now takes longer.
When I first started racing with the 750MC, on more than one occasion I rang Dave Bradley a day or so before the race for an entry - tickets left on gate and pay when I get there - No problem. (mind you it only cost about 20 quid to enter a race in those days  )Why has it got so bleeding complicated! |
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__________________
Nostagia ain't what it used to be!
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19 Jul 2009, 21:11 (Ref:2504422)
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#166 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5
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So the BARC new 'on-line' entry system, which on the face of it is quite good as you only put your details in once and avoid having to fill in the complete entry form for every race - also good if you are environmentally bothered avoiding the wasted paper mountain and postage etc.. The trouble is that the ability to 'ignore' the late entry fee on the paper system by writing out your cheque for the normal amount (which always seems to be accepted) is removed as the system automatically recognises an entry past the closing date and robbs you of the 30 quid. So one up to the organisers, who also save the postage / printing costs, and avoid having to administer loads of cheques every week. you would think that would be enough of an incentive to introduce the system - but they also extract a further 2 quid for paying with a card 'online'!
I for one will be returning to the good old paper system next year and saving the £32 quid per race! |
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27 Jul 2009, 12:05 (Ref:2509113)
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#167 | |
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Rookie
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 65
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