No Hype To This Season?

[climb]

Originally Posted by luke

Ok here's my opinion....

...

But whilst it seems at times I'm seeing CART again most of the time its just the IRL on steroids basically with more CART tracks and a few more entries. Tony needs to do more but he won't basically which is quite disappointing as there was a lot of potential at the end of the year to capitalize big time with the potential.

IMHO they need to drop silly races liek Sears Point, good that they did Belle Isle and Watkins Glen is a good track but poor crowd. Bring back Road America, Michigan, Loudon, Phoenix etc....

At the moment its mainly an old CART schedule with a few IRL races that aren't that big that are NASCAR tracks basically.

I suppose changing shcedule is not too easy, there may be multy-year deals with tracks.

[Canada ALMS fan]

I have to say I was pleasantly surprised with yesterday's race. The broadcast was very good IMO. The cars were professionally presented and most had more sponsors than I had assumed. Then new engines sound much better. It felt more like CART than Champ Car ever did. I was very skeptical about the whole merger but I think when the economy recovers this series has a real shot a regaining some if the prestige of the pre-split series. The depth of driver talent is better than it has been for some time, getting rid of the divide in American Open Wheel was a good thing. If there could be 1 or 2 more engine manufacturers and we can get rid of the current (ugly) Dallara all will be good in my books. I am actually looking forward to the rest of the season, something I haven't felt about CART (and never for the IRL) for a long time. They are slowly winning this old CART fan over.

[luke]

As much as it the coverage looked much better, the field looking better and great seeing Wilson up front etc I really couldn't get into the race for some reason and didn't enjoy it.

Dallaras are still ugly of course, can't see why instead of designing a whole new chassis just update several parts that are more modern, quicker and looks better as a plus.. They aren't meant to be the same speed as ALMS cars.

Depending whether the recession hits this series hard, maybe after the economy starts to build again in x amount of years then hopefully American Open Wheel shall be better.

I am really looking forward to Long Beach though. And then Indianapolis already. Nice to be able to say both those great races in the same series.

[cthib10]

Well I'm not really a fan of any OW racing in particular but after reading the discussion I figured I'd throw in another opinion.

It is obvious that most of you aren't thrilled in the least about the current state of the IRL. All though I do have to agree I don't think the cars or the competition are as exciting as they could be the IRL, but the IRL has to be doing something right to stay a float. Quite frankly, I think it would be a dumb decision to go in the direction CART or CC went considering they both failed. They might have done some things that worked better for fans but it they were doing things correctly they would still be around. As far as I can tell only the IRL has survived until now. They must know something the other leagues couldn't figure out.

[johntt]

Originally Posted by cthib10

Well I'm not really a fan of any OW racing in particular but after reading the discussion I figured I'd throw in another opinion.

It is obvious that most of you aren't thrilled in the least about the current state of the IRL. All though I do have to agree I don't think the cars or the competition are as exciting as they could be the IRL, but the IRL has to be doing something right to stay a float. Quite frankly, I think it would be a dumb decision to go in the direction CART or CC went considering they both failed. They might have done some things that worked better for fans but it they were doing things correctly they would still be around. As far as I can tell only the IRL has survived until now. They must know something the other leagues couldn't figure out.

Its been bankrolled by Tony George from day one and has never turned a profit. Its very survival since 1996 has been because of that.

CART Indycar / CART World Series / Champ Car failed due to crap management. The product was great, especially from 1979-95.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by johntt

CART Indycar / CART World Series / Champ Car failed due to crap management. The product was great, especially from 1979-95.

As always John, be it F1, ALMS, or IndyCar - you are spot on!

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by johntt

Its been bankrolled by Tony George from day one and has never turned a profit. Its very survival since 1996 has been because of that.

CART Indycar / CART World Series / Champ Car failed due to crap management. The product was great, especially from 1979-95.

Yep it's easy to survive when you have a patron willing to endlessly subsidize it to the tune of hundreds of millions. And that patron splits the business entity apart dividing the forces against many competitors. How long that subsidy can last is a good question.

CART worked despite the bad management and infighting. Certainly someone could write a book about all the lessons learned or not learned in some cases. Maybe that story will be told someday in complete form.

CART now is a part of history so it's never going to be the same again much like Can-AM or Group C or Winston Cup nascar. But only a fool would ignore what worked and what didn't and not apply those lessons to what is available now.

I was watching some old CART races recently and it was a shocking reminder of how far we have fallen.

[climb]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

I have to say I was pleasantly surprised with yesterday's race. The broadcast was very good IMO. The cars were professionally presented and most had more sponsors than I had assumed. ....

A friend of mine was there and told me the crowd was very good as well

[johntt]

Oh dear....

http://www.mynameisirl.com/2009/04/v...with-bomb.html

[climb]

this mass of figures doen's mean much to me. Of course Versus has few viewers than ESPN, even Nascar would experience a similar downfall

[johntt]

Originally Posted by climb

this mass of figures doesn't mean much to me. Of course Versus has few viewers than ESPN, even Nascar would experience a similar downfall

No more than the falling viewership of the Indy 500 since 1996?

[mountainstar]

Well 233K viewers in 2009 from 1 million something something viewer from last season is one heck of a fall in numbers. That's one turd polishing job that's going to be tough to do. There is more of a decline there that can be accounted for from the switch to Versus.

I remember hearing last October in some discussions I had with certain people that this versus deal was going to make a job of selling sponsorships a lot tougher. I think once they start to bank these actual numbers it's going to be even tougher than people once thought.

[Tim Northcutt]

The St. Pete GP on ABC last year was about 400,000 viewers, and was shown at about the same time of day and date.

Homestead was a Saturday night race in prime time that probably had a decent show leading viewers into the evening slot.

Still not good numbers...a 0.2 stinks...but let's see where it goes from here...the telecast was much beter than what ESPN would do for races in recent years.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by climb

this mass of figures doen's mean much to me. Of course Versus has few viewers than ESPN, even Nascar would experience a similar downfall

What it does mean is that sponsors are not going to be rushing to a series no one is watching.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

What it does mean is that sponsors are not going to be rushing to a series no one is watching.

It all depends on the ROI. As a rough example, if a sponsor was spending $100,000 to reach 250,000 targeted people every two weeks that would be one thing, however asking for $5 million for primary car sponsorship is a whole different story.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

It all depends on the ROI. As a rough example, if a sponsor was spending $100,000 to reach 250,000 targeted people every two weeks that would be one thing, however asking for $5 million for primary car sponsorship is a whole different story.

Exactly, what a car costs to run exceeds the value of exposure that a sponsors receive. I wish I had the solution... Without manufacturers and tobacco companies () throwing money at teams the entry list will not significantly grow. Without the big grids and diverse cars the fans won't come (view on TV) in large numbers. Without large viewership, sponsors won't come. No fan interest, no manufacturer interest. One big vicious circle.

[climb]

Originally Posted by johntt

No more than the falling viewership of the Indy 500 since 1996?

Can you cite an event who's not had falling viewership since 1996 ?

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

Exactly, what a car costs to run exceeds the value of exposure that a sponsors receive. I wish I had the solution... Without manufacturers and tobacco companies () throwing money at teams the entry list will not significantly grow. Without the big grids and diverse cars the fans won't come (view on TV) in large numbers. Without large viewership, sponsors won't come. No fan interest, no manufacturer interest. One big vicious circle.

The classic declining business spiral.

It's an even tougher market out there now than even 10 years ago. With the internet and a proliferation of tv channels like never before, it's hard to get the message out there.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by climb

Can you cite an event who's not had falling viewership since 1996 ?

Well that's not a trend to boast about.

I'd be worried because someday you might hit zero. Oh wait that already happened a few times with 0.0 ratings for the motegi races. Don Lapre and his tiny little classified ads pulls bigger numbers than that.

[johntt]

Originally Posted by climb

Can you cite an event who's not had falling viewership since 1996 ?

Daytona 500 Nielsen ratings:
http://tvbythenumbers.com/2008/02/25...1974-2008/2670

Indy 500 Nielsen ratings:
Unvailable...almost as if someone doesn't want us to see them.

[climb]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

The classic declining business spiral.

It's an even tougher market out there now than even 10 years ago. With the internet and a proliferation of tv channels like never before, it's hard to get the message out there.

You just answered and contradicted yourself at the same time

Identifying the TV rates as the only channel to promote a brand via team/car sponsorship, is obsolete. Now millions of people surf the net, and the same brands are visible there, multiplying, not complicating, the chances "to get the message out there".


I never watched a race on ESPN, but I regularly follow IRL on the net, as many people, you all included, do.

[Paradise City]

I think the TV Ratings are pursued religiously by sponsors. It's a kind of dogma to them and with a lot of gut squeezing belt tightening going on, the Versus ratings sure aren't good. Which was a pity because I enjoyed that last race it was somewhat evocative of the old days. It's hard though to adopt any posture other than what and see.

Of course when the Indy 500 comes around again -- with Petty and his car -- that might trawl in more viewers for the rest of season.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by climb

You just answered and contradicted yourself at the same time

Identifying the TV rates as the only channel to promote a brand via team/car sponsorship, is obsolete. Now millions of people surf the net, and the same brands are visible there, multiplying, not complicating, the chances "to get the message out there".


I never watched a race on ESPN, but I regularly follow IRL on the net, as many people, you all included, do.

I don't see any contradiction there???

In order to survive in this market you have to have a great product people want and clearly people don't want the irl.

Billions of people surf the net yet that doesn't mean anything if no one looks at your page.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

I think the TV Ratings are pursued religiously by sponsors. It's a kind of dogma to them and with a lot of gut squeezing belt tightening going on, the Versus ratings sure aren't good. Which was a pity because I enjoyed that last race it was somewhat evocative of the old days. It's hard though to adopt any posture other than what and see.

Of course when the Indy 500 comes around again -- with Petty and his car -- that might trawl in more viewers for the rest of season.

Those tv ratings are an all important barometer for a ROI.

It's tough to sell $5 million sponsorships on the back of 200,000 viewers. Hence that's why you see a lot of piecemeal deals going on.

I hear from a friend at Honda they are looking for cuts everywhere and that might include cuts in ticket purchases and other motorsports related spending. That could affect a few races on the schedule.

[cthib10]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Those tv ratings are an all important barometer for a ROI.

It's tough to sell $5 million sponsorships on the back of 200,000 viewers. Hence that's why you see a lot of piecemeal deals going on.

I hear from a friend at Honda they are looking for cuts everywhere and that might include cuts in ticket purchases and other motorsports related spending. That could affect a few races on the schedule.

Well how much does Honda have to pay to be the sole provider of engines to the IRL? It would be sweet if they were able to cut back and let other companies provide competing motors. I can dream haha. That would make things more interesting IMO.