Bathurst short track

[louonline]

Originally Posted by DAVID PATERSON

Lou, you fail to realise that the current standards for a top level FIA track preclude blind corners, blind crests and reducing radius corners. There are also minimum runoff areas for corners, these are determined by the speed of the corner. Quite simply, it is virtually impossible to bring Bathurst up to the highest FIA standard and to do so would emasculate the place horribly, to the point of it being unrecognisable.

Gee David they don't want much!

I'm beginning to think the only real racers are our touring cars and the V8 Supercars, at least they are willing to take on the Mount and race to the conditions.

Seems to me that some of these other formula racers have 'no balls'.

David, you seem to be up as to the required track standards, what's the top thing we can attract without completely compromising the Mount? (bikes and cars)

[Alan52]

Bikes-nothing.It would be impossible to get the circuit homologated for even Australian Championship racing without getting rid of all those concrete walls that line nearly all of the track.Cars-FIA GT possibly although there would have to be substantial increase in run off between the end of Mountain Straight and Forrest's Elbow which would cost nearly as much as the Eastern Creek upgrade!I can't agree with your "real racers" comment.The lack of run off across the mountain has been responsible in the last few years for the serious incidents involving Mark Porter,David Clark,Paul Weel and Paul Radisich.Work needs to be done in the Reid Park to Skyline area to substantially increase run off or this toll will inevitably rise. Safety for competitors should not be compromised by a wish of spectators for the place to retain its character.

[DAVID PATERSON]

Originally Posted by louonline

David, you seem to be up as to the required track standards, what's the top thing we can attract without completely compromising the Mount? (bikes and cars)

Lou, i don't have a copy of the standards, but i know people who do. As far as CAMS goes, all sedans and production sports cars are eligible, but Formula Vee & Formula Ford are the only open wheelers which are eligible.

[louonline]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Bikes-nothing.It would be impossible to get the circuit homologated for even Australian Championship racing without getting rid of all those concrete walls that line nearly all of the track.Cars-FIA GT possibly although there would have to be substantial increase in run off between the end of Mountain Straight and Forrest's Elbow which would cost nearly as much as the Eastern Creek upgrade!I can't agree with your "real racers" comment.The lack of run off across the mountain has been responsible in the last few years for the serious incidents involving Mark Porter,David Clark,Paul Weel and Paul Radisich.Work needs to be done in the Reid Park to Skyline area to substantially increase run off or this toll will inevitably rise. Safety for competitors should not be compromised by a wish of spectators for the place to retain its character.

LOL, the Mount has just gone from the best track in the world to the unsafest track in the world!

Alan, I take on board all what you say and I understand.

What I'm trying to say is at least let's have a look at what can be done on the existing circuit before we rush in and build a new track.

From what you say some safety modifications should be made irregardless of a new track or not.

Sums of $18m to $25m have been bandied about, I'm sure with that sort of money they could move a few concrete wall and put in the required run-offs even if they have to cart in a few truck loads of dirt to fill in the off side of the track to accommodate them.

I welcome you input but lets do a bit of a study on what we got before we rush in.

[Alan52]

I agree money spent on Bathurst would be better invested on bringing the existing circuit up to current safety levels rather than building a new track that would basically be a Wakefield Park clone.It is a pity that when all those millions were spent a few years back more wasn't directed towards the circuit itself and less towards a luxury pit building for Tony and his offsiders.

[mtpanorama]

Originally Posted by louonline

Considering your nic is 'mtpanorama' and your slogan is "best race track in the world", your post is very surprising!

What is surprising about wanting another track to race at besides eastern creek and Wakefield Park in NSW ???

Originally Posted by louonline

One would have thought that you of all people would want to see the Mount remain THE MOUNT not the mount and the 'kiddies track'.

THE MOUNT will alway be "The Mount". Who says the new track wont be called "The Bathurst GP circuit" or something else ???
With the the things you want to see happen to the Mount Panorama circuit it wont be the same anymore.

Originally Posted by louonline

To say that putting in another track would not detract from the character of the iconic Mount is ludicrous.

Says you! You could build Disneyland inside the circuit and it will still be "Mount Panorama" the racetrack.

Originally Posted by louonline

We don't need another track we just need the existing track made suitable for a greater viriety of racers.

Ah, yes we do. We need another track in NSW with the closure of Oran Park there will be very little available track time between the other two existing circuits. Try and book yourself a day at either EC or WP for next year and see how you go. It will be fairly slim pickings. Race meetings are not the be all for circuits. Driver training, corporate booking and ride days take up most of the track hire these days, and a new ciruit in Bathurst would be much the same if it could be utilised during the week.
The suitability of the current track isnt the biggest issue. It is finding the money to actually run a race meeting without the competitors having to pay a couple of thousand dollars to enter.

Originally Posted by louonline

And mate I'm not whinging, I just want to see "the best race track in the world" attract the best of motor sport in the world so please have another think, don't just accept anything just because the money may be made available. Think big and keep it the best race track in the world!

As others have said the ciruit will not attract the best of motorsport in the world as it will never be licenced to do so, and if you want it to be it will no loger be your "iconic" race track.

[louonline]

Originally Posted by mtpanorama

What is surprising about wanting another track to race at besides eastern creek and Wakefield Park in NSW ???



THE MOUNT will alway be "The Mount". Who says the new track wont be called "The Bathurst GP circuit" or something else ???
With the the things you want to see happen to the Mount Panorama circuit it wont be the same anymore.



Says you! You could build Disneyland inside the circuit and it will still be "Mount Panorama" the racetrack.



Ah, yes we do. We need another track in NSW with the closure of Oran Park there will be very little available track time between the other two existing circuits. Try and book yourself a day at either EC or WP for next year and see how you go. It will be fairly slim pickings. Race meetings are not the be all for circuits. Driver training, corporate booking and ride days take up most of the track hire these days, and a new ciruit in Bathurst would be much the same if it could be utilised during the week.
The suitability of the current track isnt the biggest issue. It is finding the money to actually run a race meeting without the competitors having to pay a couple of thousand dollars to enter.



As others have said the ciruit will not attract the best of motorsport in the world as it will never be licenced to do so, and if you want it to be it will no loger be your "iconic" race track.

Thank you for your views Mt. Panorama.

[fomoco]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Bikes-nothing.It would be impossible to get the circuit homologated for even Australian Championship racing without getting rid of all those concrete walls that line nearly all of the track.Cars-FIA GT possibly although there would have to be substantial increase in run off between the end of Mountain Straight and Forrest's Elbow which would cost nearly as much as the Eastern Creek upgrade!I can't agree with your "real racers" comment.The lack of run off across the mountain has been responsible in the last few years for the serious incidents involving Mark Porter,David Clark,Paul Weel and Paul Radisich.Work needs to be done in the Reid Park to Skyline area to substantially increase run off or this toll will inevitably rise. Safety for competitors should not be compromised by a wish of spectators for the place to retain its character.

Hey Al, you are the only post to be spot on. How many people know, that even though we race ther each year, under FIA approval, there is actual parts of the track that do not comply with FIA regs. Especially across the the top.
Maybe some one should take a run up there and do a quick measure of the track width and how far the barriers are meant to be.

Spend the money on the track.

[chequer57]

Interesting article here about the proposal
http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=3868



But the line "Future progress with the new circuit now lies with State and Federal Governments,
who will meet to discuss funding for the facility" will mean it may never happen.

[Falcadore]

Originally Posted by peckstar

As for acts of parliament, well all it takes is an act of parliament to fix it, its not really thta difficult

It does if its in an election year. Both the NSW State and Federal governments face elections this year. If the act (not sure which of the two it needs to pass) isn't either vote friendly or vote neutral then it ain't gonna come up soon.

[Falcadore]

I think you've all just ignored the major problem with staging an event at Bathurst. Logistics.

Major international championship racing at Bathurst is going to be difficult-to-impossible to justify because it's too far from an international airport. Because Australia is where it is as far as oceans go, any series will come in and out by plane. It's one thing to fly a series across continents, it's quite another to strap the containers onto trucks and drive them a further four hours to get from Botany Bay to Bathurst.

Lou-on-line: in additional to Patto's comments about blind and differing radii corners, track width is also an issue. Several portions of the circuit are either at, or below, minimum circuit width standards. Because it's Bathurst a blind eye is turned. And because much of the circuit is on a steep slope, earthworks will be prohibitively expensive. Reid Park is best example, steep both sides of the circuit.

All that having been said, it will be very interesting indeed to see how wings and slicks open wheelers go on track tomorrow.

[Crash Test]

Originally Posted by Falcadore

I think you've all just ignored the major problem with staging an event at Bathurst. Logistics.

Major international championship racing at Bathurst is going to be difficult-to-impossible to justify because it's too far from an international airport. Because Australia is where it is as far as oceans go, any series will come in and out by plane. It's one thing to fly a series across continents, it's quite another to strap the containers onto trucks and drive them a further four hours to get from Botany Bay to Bathurst.

If you've spent months and weeks and days getting an event organised and transporting machinery to Australia, an extra 3 hours on a truck won't make much of a difference. Melbourne is 3 hours extra by plane from Brisbane, why isn't the F1 held in Brisbane??

[Bevan-L]

Originally Posted by DAVID PATERSON

Jeff, are you pushing a barrow here?

In this thread you ask if anyone knows anything about it, in another thread you described it as "much talked about".

I believe that i am as much involved in the sport as any amateur can be and this forum is the only place i've ever heard it mentioned.

I've already gone on record suggesting it is one of the dumbest ideas i've ever heard. Imagine entering a meeting and towing a car all the way to Bathurst, only to run around pit straight and the paddock.

Bathurst without that exhilerating ride across the top of the mountain is like eating a cone with no ice cream, going to a music festival and leaving before the headline act, buying a famous race car and sealing it in an air tight vault, dating a girl who wears a chastity belt, seriously why would you bother???

Awesome post hahahaha

A++++++++ will buy again

[Falcadore]

Originally Posted by Crash Test

If you've spent months and weeks and days getting an event organised and transporting machinery to Australia, an extra 3 hours on a truck won't make much of a difference. Melbourne is 3 hours extra by plane from Brisbane, why isn't the F1 held in Brisbane??

Melbourne is in the middle of a major city with plenty of accomodation where they can be pampered. Bathurst is a rural centre. Is there a local promotor who can justify the cost of shipping the say the new FIA WOrld GT1 title from Botany Bay the Bathurst on the team's behalf? Is the organiser going to look at that heache and ask themself, why not go to Eastern Creek and save considerable time/hassle?

Teams can;t get a taxi from Bathurst to the airport that will take them home, they'll need a fleet of mini-busses to get down the range, or fly from Bathurst to Sydney and transfer planes.

We love and worship the place, doesn't mean anywhere else in the world will believe to be worth the hassle.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Falcadore

Melbourne is in the middle of a major city with plenty of accomodation where they can be pampered. Bathurst is a rural centre. Is there a local promotor who can justify the cost of shipping the say the new FIA WOrld GT1 title from Botany Bay the Bathurst on the team's behalf? Is the organiser going to look at that heache and ask themself, why not go to Eastern Creek and save considerable time/hassle?

Teams can;t get a taxi from Bathurst to the airport that will take them home, they'll need a fleet of mini-busses to get down the range, or fly from Bathurst to Sydney and transfer planes.

We love and worship the place, doesn't mean anywhere else in the world will believe to be worth the hassle.

Good points that may or may not be valid depending on how much those extra logistics are important to them.

Here in the USA we have a number of very popular road courses, Virginia International Raceway, Lime Rock and Miller Park that are basically out in the boonies, yet they work and have ALMS and Grand Am among other events. I think Bathurst is much the same really.

[Falcadore]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Good points that may or may not be valid depending on how much those extra logistics are important to them.

Here in the USA we have a number of very popular road courses, Virginia International Raceway, Lime Rock and Miller Park that are basically out in the boonies, yet they work and have ALMS and Grand Am among other events. I think Bathurst is much the same really.

ALMS and Grand-Am already have all their transporters with them don't they? Cars aren't wracked into pallets with a limited amount of spares tucked into spaces. World GT1 wouldn't be taking their transporters onto the plane.

V8 Supercars travel to the middle east like that, but someone who doesn't know what to do with their cash is picking up that tab, I just question whether any local Sugar-Sheiks would be willing to fund that.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Falcadore

ALMS and Grand-Am already have all their transporters with them don't they? Cars aren't wracked into pallets with a limited amount of spares tucked into spaces. World GT1 wouldn't be taking their transporters onto the plane.

V8 Supercars travel to the middle east like that, but someone who doesn't know what to do with their cash is picking up that tab, I just question whether any local Sugar-Sheiks would be willing to fund that.

True I guess, but you figure that if they raced at EC that they would have to load onto trucks anyways so can't see the big difference between driving across town to EC and driving a couple hours west to Bathurst.

[Parramatta_Power]

Originally Posted by Crash Test

If you've spent months and weeks and days getting an event organised and transporting machinery to Australia, an extra 3 hours on a truck won't make much of a difference. Melbourne is 3 hours extra by plane from Brisbane, why isn't the F1 held in Brisbane??

Because Brisbane SUCKS??? Nah, just kidding. Seriously though, a short circuit on Bathurst would open it up for more types of motorsport ie Bikes and Open Wheel vehicles but considering the locals being contempt to stick with the events already on the calender I just don't see them wanting more and more events that will anger them. Noise pollution is a factor with any Racing Track built near a Township or in the middle of a populated City.

[chequer57]

The shame of it all is that Mount Panorama has all this static infrastructure that is basically under utilised.

The idea of building a circuit at Bathurst would be great for the local economy and for NSW. The problem is motor racing is noisy and Mt Panorama is close to Bathurst's Residential Area and people quite understandably don't like noisy cars running around every day of the week.

V8's have gone from a racing series to an "Event" series .... with lots of street races (funded with tax payer money) so the return on investment on any permanent infrastructure is not there. The only way that a new circuit is going to built in NSW is if via a benevolence of wealthy individuals who are keen to see it from go to "O" (as what happened at Wakefield Park nearly 20 years ago.)

[Parramatta_Power]

Originally Posted by chequer57

The shame of it all is that Mount Panorama has all this static infrastructure that is basically under utilised.

The idea of building a circuit at Bathurst would be great for the local economy and for NSW. The problem is motor racing is noisy and Mt Panorama is close to Bathurst's Residential Area and people quite understandably don't like noisy cars running around every day of the week.

V8's have gone from a racing series to an "Event" series .... with lots of street races (funded with tax payer money) so the return on investment on any permanent infrastructure is not there. The only way that a new circuit is going to built in NSW is if via a benevolence of wealthy individuals who are keen to see it from go to "O" (as what happened at Wakefield Park nearly 20 years ago.)

Private investment has a lot more problems than Government backing and a wealthy investment from the private sector into building another Circuit at Mt Panorama seems unlikely.

[fomoco]

I recall some time ago, when another category ran around the mount , that this was a popular topic, If you dig out a old copy of Auto fiction, and others it was disussed quite regulary. I think the concept back then was to have a couple of 250 MILE races during the year as well as the then, " Hardie Ferodo 500". Nothing new about the philosopy. I think it was to replace an old and worn out Philip Island back then.

Still today and where ever they race, Logistics, parking for public, access for public, road, rail , bus, support events, ock show, night drags, face painting etc, the whole shooting gallery.

Look it is a fantastic idea, but again, voluteers to help out, time of work etc etc .

As SUBO said, I dreamed a dream

[cavvy]

For the logistics/accomodation compare racing in the city (F1 Albert Park) versus Phillip Island (the bikes).

Personally PI wins every time but I'm not Joe Public or a sponsor/team owner & doubt my views count for anything when commercial decisions are being made.