Global Rallycross Championship 2012

[I Rosputnik]

I'm ok with them not visiting the older tracks, but rather then doing it on the streets, would it not make sense doing it inside of a stadium similar to Race of Champions? I've always thought that rallycross could make a good stadium sport when done right, as you can build the track in the way you want, it's easy for sponsors to get their adverts displayed clearly and you get to see all of the action.

I wouldn't be suprised if Citroen could care less if one of their cars won the X-games, but it's a different story for KHM and Liam, and hope this gives both them some strong exposure. (I just found it funny when everyone was arguing about Ford and Subaru, a car that is not sold in the USA, comes along and beats them both.) I would like to think Citroen might start paying attention in 2013 however if there were races in South America and Europe.

[AndyS]

Originally Posted by I Rosputnik

I'm ok with them not visiting the older tracks, but rather then doing it on the streets, would it not make sense doing it inside of a stadium similar to Race of Champions? I've always thought that rallycross could make a good stadium sport when done right, as you can build the track in the way you want, it's easy for sponsors to get their adverts displayed clearly and you get to see all of the action.

I suspect you'd struggle to fit a decent circuit in a stadium. ROC always looks very cramped to me. Straights wouldn't be long enough and it would be too tight, twisty and thin. The only way you could do it would be to have it going outside of the stadium. Having said that I'm basing it on European stadiums. The ones in the States may be bigger.

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by USRallycross

In 2011, the ERC spec engines were slightly higher than the GRC ones. Think that will change in 2012 given the new engine rules in the ERC.

The ERC cars were higher spec? Oops, I really got the wrong end of the stick there then!

Originally Posted by AndyS

I suspect you'd struggle to fit a decent circuit in a stadium. ROC always looks very cramped to me. Straights wouldn't be long enough and it would be too tight, twisty and thin. The only way you could do it would be to have it going outside of the stadium. Having said that I'm basing it on European stadiums. The ones in the States may be bigger.

I agree. Consider X-Games 16 where "rallycross" made its debut (as "Super Rally"). Even using the stadium and a (very small) section outside the best circuit layout they could manage was a big oval.

Including a stadium as part of a circuit could work (for spectator purposes), but I think you need more track elsewhere.

I know a lot of the old guard didn't rate it, but I thought the layout at X-Games 17 was a huge step up. Just needs more dirt!

Originally Posted by I Rosputnik

I just found it funny when everyone was arguing about Ford and Subaru, a car that is not sold in the USA, comes along and beats them both.

I believe Ford were in the process of marketing the Fiesta in the US around X-Games 16 weren't they? Hence why they were keen to get the Fiesta exposure at X-Games and Pikes Peak?

[I Rosputnik]

Originally Posted by tbtstt

The ERC cars were higher spec? Oops, I really got the wrong end of the stick there then!


I agree. Consider X-Games 16 where "rallycross" made its debut (as "Super Rally"). Even using the stadium and a (very small) section outside the best circuit layout they could manage was a big oval.

Including a stadium as part of a circuit could work (for spectator purposes), but I think you need more track elsewhere.

I know a lot of the old guard didn't rate it, but I thought the layout at X-Games 17 was a huge step up. Just needs more dirt!


I believe Ford were in the process of marketing the Fiesta in the US around X-Games 16 weren't they? Hence why they were keen to get the Fiesta exposure at X-Games and Pikes Peak?

Yeah, Ford were pushing for the Fiesta MK7 quite a bit at X-games 16. I know there was a MK6 racing as well.

If the X games do find their way to the UK two stadiums of the top of my head that might work would be Murrayfield or Wembley. Or if that does not work then why not use Battersea Power Station?

Yeah, there does need to be dirt. Just for added thrills why not have a mud pit, or for the winter x games why not have some snow sections?

[USRallycross]

I think, and wouldn't be surprised, if you find that the car has to be sold in the US to be eligible in 2012. With more manufacturers getting involved they want to compete against relevant product. This is only a personal opinion!

I struggle to see stadiums work both for size and for the image that is desired for the series which is more post industrial - think Dirtfish (GRC round 2) and the early Gymkhana and even the recent Battle Cross show. Remember this is all about the "show".

LA wasn't great for spectators - although that could be fixed - but I think some cities could put on great events with huge crowds. Similarly, there are ovals that could have great tracks inside.

Mark
Best Buy RallyCross team

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by I Rosputnik

If the X games do find their way to the UK two stadiums of the top of my head that might work would be Murrayfield or Wembley. Or if that does not work then why not use Battersea Power Station?

I reckon Battersea would be spot on. They have already run a number of motocross events there and a gymkhana demo, there is loads of room there to build a nice big circuit and its accessible for people to get to. Plus I saw last week that the company that were suppose to be developing it have gone pop, so turning it into a rallycross track seems like a good use of the site to me!

Originally Posted by USRallycross

I struggle to see stadiums work both for size and for the image that is desired for the series which is more post industrial - think Dirtfish (GRC round 2)...

Again I know the traditional rallycrossers weren't keen, but I thought the Dirtfish location worked better than the ovals did for the GRC events. Its seemed closer to a "proper" rallycross track.

Originally Posted by USRallycross

...even the recent Battle Cross show. Remember this is all about the "show".

Speaking of this did anyone manage to see it? Most of the motoring news sites reported it was going to be shown, but the day after it was shown there wasn't a mention of it anywhere. I managed to find out who won (I wasn't surprised ) but not a whiff of coverage anywhere on the internet: most odd!

[Down F0rce]

So... no Fabia next year?

[rx-guru]

Originally Posted by Down F0rce

So... no Fabia next year?

And possibly no Citroën…?

[USRallycross]

Remember I am not speaking officially - just guessing.......but makes sense if I sit in the manufacturers shoes.

Mark

[FIRE]

It makes no sense to not allow certain cars to take part in Global Rallycross Championship.

[rx-guru]

Originally Posted by FIRE

It makes no sense to not allow certain cars to take part in Global Rallycross Championship.

And what sense makes a Global Rallycross Championship in the US?

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by rx-guru

GRX for Global Rallycross?
GRC = Global Rallycross Championship.
So GRXC would actually be what you prefer?

No, I'd prefer GRX, just like the FIM Superbike World Championship is shortened WSBK.

I'm sure they will allow guest Fabias and C4s (DS3s?), but not let them run the full championship.

Originally Posted by AndyS

I suspect you'd struggle to fit a decent circuit in a stadium. ROC always looks very cramped to me. Straights wouldn't be long enough and it would be too tight, twisty and thin. The only way you could do it would be to have it going outside of the stadium.

Having said that I'm basing it on European stadiums. The ones in the States may be bigger.

American football stadiums are even narrower than soccer stadiums. Baseball stadiums might work, they are much bigger I think.

Anyway, the true problem is to fill the huge stands of major stadiums. Plus, the point of doing street races is to allow spectators to stand next to the walls and catch fences.

[rx-guru]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...BK_WM_Logo.jpg

The official abbreviation seems to be SBK, not WSBK.
However, any idea what the K stands for?

[chasing cars]

Reading erc24 seems like Isachsen is also keen to do this global thing next year. How many more are going to go this way? Concerned that we are all going to get toLydden for rnd 1 of the ERC next year and find a rather depleted entry in the top catagory.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by rx-guru

And what sense makes a Global Rallycross Championship in the US?

I thought they have plans to add events outside the US in the next few years?

[rx-guru]

Many have plans…

[rx-guru]

Keen to go is not going. But it needs to beat the drum to be heard…

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by rx-guru

Many have plans…

True but you have to give them benefit of the doubt.
Have watched a couple of 2011 events but so far I am not impressed. But like I already said you need to give them a couple of seasons to develop the series.

Maybe this does ERC realizing to improve their own series. The sport (it has to be sport and not show ) is good but the promotion is lacking on several areas.

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Maybe this does ERC realizing to improve their own series. The sport (it has to be sport and not show ) is good but the promotion is lacking on several areas.

Fully agree with you on this point.

I still can't see why the GRC is drawing as much hate from a lot of the old guard as it is. Some elements of it have obviously been tweaked for a different audience, but the fundamentals are still the same. Without the initial X-Games/US interest in rallycross a couple of years ago I wonder if we would have a Monster backed UK driver in the ERC and a Best Buy sponsored car in the BRC (and hopefully ERC) next year...

[chunder]

There wont be a Best Buy car in BRC next year as I mentioned months ago Best Buy are no longer in the UK, the have pulled out of the UK. If Binks has managed to keep that deal then fair play, but BEst Buy are closing in the UK.

As for GRC, well the reason people dont like it I guess is because guys like Jernberg and Holte are going there to race instead.

There must be more reasons than sheer racing, and I would guess it's time and money. It must cost a fortune to run ERC, maybe cheaper next year as Isachsen won't be able to change an engine a day as he has up to now pretty much!

But are these guys getting paid to race over there? I guess so. It takes less time from them and is different.

If you look beyond those few guys it's no different to a national series, average cars, poor crowds at most events. Yes they have Xgames, and that is huge, but that's about it.

For the fans over here all they see is drivers leaving the best worldwide series to race a few races in the US that holds little weight?

I guess that sums it up

[USRallycross]

I think the reason the GRC is attractive is relatively simple - and also what helps us purists compromise our beliefs

1 - it is backed by ESPN who (as they self proclaim) are the world wide leader in sports
2 - 4 million people watched the rallycross portion of X Games 17 - that really helps when you talk to sponsors about reach, media weight, activation programs and so on
3 - there are real manufacturer teams here so paid/heavily subsidized rides are available; and more manufacturers are coming. Remember the size of this one market
4 - there is only upside. There is no hiding that 2011 missed on many levels but we still saw rallycross in the US become a reality AND be a major draw
5 - sponsors want to be involved in the series

GRC does have to be careful that it doesnt end up like IndyCar where all the foreigners come and kick the Americans butt.......However, right now in Foust and especially Pastrana there is real American talent. Add the cult personalities over here of General Deegan and Ken Block and it draws a following. As the field grows you will continue to see a mix of extreme athletes graduating to the cage offset by an increase in highly talented European rallycross and rally drivers coming over.

Lots can still go wrong but this has the chance to be very big and hopefully the rising tide lifts all ships and the ERC will flourish too.


Mark
Best Buy RallyCross Team

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by chunder

There wont be a Best Buy car in BRC next year as I mentioned months ago Best Buy are no longer in the UK, the have pulled out of the UK. If Binks has managed to keep that deal then fair play, but BEst Buy are closing in the UK.

As I understand it Binks has held onto that deal despite the Best Buy closure, hasn't he?

Originally Posted by chunder

As for GRC, well the reason people dont like it I guess is because guys like Jernberg and Holte are going there to race instead.

There was a general dislike for the GRC before either Jernberg or Holte had declared any interest in it! As I said earlier I appreciate that some elements of it have obviously been tweaked for a different audience, but the fundamentals are still the same.

Originally Posted by chunder

For the fans over here all they see is drivers leaving the best worldwide series to race a few races in the US that holds little weight?

I agree to an extent. In terms of the level of competition (considering the 2011 season) I would say the ERX is far superior (I doubt anyone would disagree with that), but in terms of marketing and general media coverage the GRC was far better in 2011 (in my opinion): and that was in its first year.

To the racing fan I would say a driver with the ERC crown will be seen as having the greatest accolade, but the one with the GRC title will, in my opinion, have far more clout with potential sponsors (hopefully that makes sense).

The GRC seems to have big plans for 2012 and, if they succeeds with what they've stated I think it'll be seen to have more weight by the end of the year... if they do what they say.

[chasing cars]

Originally Posted by tbtstt

Fully agree with you on this point.

I still can't see why the GRC is drawing as much hate from a lot of the old guard as it is. Some elements of it have obviously been tweaked for a different audience, but the fundamentals are still the same. Without the initial X-Games/US interest in rallycross a couple of years ago I wonder if we would have a Monster backed UK driver in the ERC and a Best Buy sponsored car in the BRC (and hopefully ERC) next year...

Is it so great that Monster back Liam? With all the distractions that come with sponsorship there was little doubt Liams driving took a step backwards this year. Also with him spending so much time in the US (getting him to the superprix was very much a last minute twist of the arm) how long before he turns his back on the ERC & the UK?

The problem and I know this is a selfish opinion is those of us who follow the ERC, and I dont just mean an annual trip to Lydden, fear that the championship is being weakened by the draw of the US dollar. What other reason could Holte have for going when he had a good chance of winning his first title in 2012?

Maybe in the long term it will be good if it really takes off and interest grows worldwide but i would not be surprised to see the Global thing go the same way as many past motorsport fads have and disappear as quick as it came. Problem is how many european drivers who take that route will come back to europe and race having been used to getting paid to race?

[chunder]

The issue really has to be what are the ERC going to do to try and keep their drivers.

If it ends up being some kind of war between the two money and exposure will always win.

Someone like Holte is a young driver who has come up from Supernational, is obviously well backed and was capable of winning ERC rounds in a privately run team. Was the team paying him? Are the team in the US going to pay him?

It is all new and great, and maybe it will eventually become a big series, but what we don't need is the situation where the ERC becomes the poor relation.

INteresting the comparison with Indycar, which basically was the poor relation of ChampCar until Craig decided to get physical with CART and took over the Champcar series and pushed it into the ground by using his power and the INDY 500 as a huge draw. Now, what was his series is the only one in the US and runs on all tracks where it did not before?

I hope this sort of thing doesn't happen as I doubt rallycross will ever be that big in the US, compared to countrie like France, Sweden and Norway where it is established and big and countries like Russia, Germany, Eastern Europe where it is growing.

NASCAR is king in the US and thogh guys like Pastrana and Block are huge draws, they also do lots of other things. Not just rallycross.

I think we should credit Monster and Doran for getting out and doing a few other things too, the Monster link is obviously at work, but that is how you get in that situation in the US you have to be adaptable like Foust, Mirra et al.

It is up to the ERC to make their series attractive and stop these drivers leaving to race over there and deserting the ERC.

[AndyS]

I have no problem with the GRC if it grows the sport of rallycross. It's a different take on things and designed to appeal to a younger audience. I am not a fan of joker laps but GRC actually make it a bit interesting, unlike the farce we see at some ERC venues.

There appears to be money in the GRC and drivers will go where the cash is so its inevitable that some will head West. Will it survive, only time will tell. I just hope it doesn't start a war between GRC and ERC because as we saw in the UK on a smaller scale with the ROC/BRC its not healthy and can get quite nasty.

In the ideal world they'll feed off one another and if there is more sponsor money around the US drivers will do GRC/X Games and the Euro drivers will do ERC/X Games. We'll see though.

ESPN its a bit niche in the UK but I think it is much more widely used outside Europe and I think this is where the audience will be for this.