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Old 9 May 2017, 12:44 (Ref:3732464)   #426
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I think it's important to remember that Zak B is not Ron Dennis, he is a more open thinker - look at the Alsonso Indy deal, the test day got more coverage than McLaren has had for probably two years in F1.

Honda will see this and they will probably think that McLaren in total can present different opportunities for Honda- how about a McLaren Honda Le Mans campaign or maybe McLaren Honda in FE, or a Honda-McLaren hyper car- I bet this is where Zak's thinking is.
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Old 9 May 2017, 16:38 (Ref:3732504)   #427
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I think Zak is doing his best to sort it, so hopefully he'll find the right solution with Honda
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Old 9 May 2017, 18:39 (Ref:3732523)   #428
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The last point of the previous post may be correct in some senses in that Honda may be able to solve the problem unaided.The problem that may occur is if the solution involves patented or protected technology and it could cause complications if such matters were infringed.It gets more involved if outside consultancies are involved as they would tarnish their professional standing if they were known to be associated with pirating.If some form of licensing agreement were in place the whole working environment becomes clean and advantages accrue to all parties.
Honda may or may not decide the path to success is a licensing agreement. Only they know if they are at a dead end and need to license outside IP. As you say, they may know how to fix the problems, but it may still require a licensing agreement.

There has also been some quotes directly from Yusuke Hasegawa that they have been interviewing engineers at Milton Keynes and some of those have been Mercedes engineers. Ideally they would want them to work at Sakura longer term. If not longer term, then shorter three month tenures as well as working directly at their Milton Keynes location. The point is they are looking to get engineers who have direct knowledge of "what works" and are trying to be flexible (relocating to Japan longer term is probably not attractive to many). IMHO, they need to focus on staffing up at their Milton Keynes location.

As I mentioned above, the general word is that the current combustion concept tested well in single cylinder situation, but they then went straight to the six cylinder engine and it didn't perform as well. But it was too late to adjust at that point. That is the current solution today. So speculation is a rework of the combustion chamber solution is in the works. Basically find something that works in a full engine and not just a single cylinder test engine.

Beyond the combustion issue, they are also chasing...

* Coolant and bearing problems with the MGU-H (problems that are exposed on the car and not in static testing)
* Shaft problems with MGU-K
* Turbo performance improvements

Also the potential for a split between Honda and McLaren might have really been in the cards at one point. But it sounds like this may not be a topic of current discussion as McLaren pressure has resulted in some structural changes (no details) within Honda at Sakura.

Details like this surface on some other F1 specific sites such as the F1 sub-reddit and F1technical.net (not sure if I am breaking rules by mentioning other sites). And ultimately that info seems to be translations of Japanese motorsport media who seemingly are able to get the inside scoop at Honda. It is probably unrealistic to expect Eurocentric media to have contacts deep inside Honda.

Richard
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Old 12 May 2017, 14:14 (Ref:3733014)   #429
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So FP1 in Spain, Alonso's on his out lap, gets to turn 3 and the engine seizes. How much longer can this go on?
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Old 12 May 2017, 15:09 (Ref:3733020)   #430
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So FP1 in Spain, Alonso's on his out lap, gets to turn 3 and the engine seizes. How much longer can this go on?
My understanding is that in general... Not much has physically changed with the power unit. I think they have made a few small reliability changes around MGU-H cooling/bearings, some non-homologated changes (I think maybe intake manifold?) and maybe some other stuff. And they have continued to work on mapping (maybe moving away from the initial very conservative solution). But generally speaking it may be a mixture of one step forward (reliability improvements coming online) and one step back (new issues arise as they try to extract performance which may expose other issues).

It's also likely that the power unit used in FP1 was an older unit. I think a number of the prior units that had issues and was then swapped out, was swapped out not because they were totally unusable, but rather because it was harder (timewise) to fix than it was to just swap in a totally new unit. The focus has been on track time. So what might be the more high mileage or less optional engines may be used in practice while the better ones saved for qualifying/race.

Frankly, (and unfortunately as a fan), I am not expecting any real "potential" for change until they bring a new spec which may be as early as Monaco, but maybe later? I don't think there is any official word on when a significantly revised power unit is expected to show up.

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Old 12 May 2017, 15:33 (Ref:3733022)   #431
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This is becoming farcical.
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Old 12 May 2017, 15:36 (Ref:3733023)   #432
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Apparently this engine was used in OZ and Chinese GPs and in Bahrain practice....which I find surprising that they even had a usable engine with that much milage on it to use in the first place!

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/a...ut-lap-904531/
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Old 12 May 2017, 16:39 (Ref:3733029)   #433
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Is there any other team wanting to make a deal with Honda for next year ?
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Old 12 May 2017, 16:42 (Ref:3733030)   #434
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At least he has something to do with all that free times
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Old 12 May 2017, 19:36 (Ref:3733054)   #435
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I don't believe Alonso's engine failure, during the out lap of FP1, at his home Spanish GP, was a humiliating coincidence.

He has been extremely vocal about the chronic shortcomings of his Honda power unit, and rightly so, but that won't sit easily with Japanese culture and their sense of honour and respect.
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Old 12 May 2017, 20:54 (Ref:3733066)   #436
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So FP1 in Spain, Alonso's on his out lap, gets to turn 3 and the engine seizes. How much longer can this go on?
Apparently, it can't go on to... turn 4.... Sorry, I will get my coat
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Old 12 May 2017, 22:44 (Ref:3733079)   #437
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At least he has something to do with all that free times
Maybe with all this extra time for training he is looking at the quadruple crown - F1, Indy 500, LeMans and Wimbledon?
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Old 12 May 2017, 23:39 (Ref:3733088)   #438
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Absolutely agree with Bob Fernley on this: http://www.autosport.com/news/report...-helping-honda
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Old 12 May 2017, 23:56 (Ref:3733094)   #439
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What does Mercedes gain, as an F1 PU/engine manufacturer from helping Honda?
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Old 13 May 2017, 00:17 (Ref:3733097)   #440
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What does Mercedes gain, as an F1 PU/engine manufacturer from helping Honda?
Control!


They will also possibly be able to persuade the rest of the engine manu's
that persisting with the engine rules that they own is a good idea, failing which they will have to invest a whole lot in a new engine.

From Honda's side I would say they have very little to gain from Mercedes in solving problems that are specific to their engineering, also show Mercedes all their secrets for no benefits.
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Old 13 May 2017, 00:36 (Ref:3733099)   #441
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Control!


They will also possibly be able to persuade the rest of the engine manu's
that persisting with the engine rules that they own is a good idea, failing which they will have to invest a whole lot in a new engine.

From Honda's side I would say they have very little to gain from Mercedes in solving problems that are specific to their engineering, also show Mercedes all their secrets for no benefits.
Mercedes are more or less in control.
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Old 13 May 2017, 00:39 (Ref:3733101)   #442
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Mercedes are more or less in control.
Pretty much BJ, and they will do what it takes to stay in control!

Including helping Honda into mediocrity.
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Old 13 May 2017, 01:31 (Ref:3733104)   #443
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Mercedes want to be seen to beat more manufacturers in direct fights -- not less. And that's what they gain. Honda and Renault waddling around at the back and out of sight doesn't really help anyone.

Mercedes are believed to have helped Renault in the past. The two companies each own tiny fractions of the other.
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Old 13 May 2017, 08:33 (Ref:3733142)   #444
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You also have to take into account that if a team is run by, what I would call, true racers, and Mercedes is certainly with Lauda and Wolff leading it, then it will not go against the grain to assist your competitors.

I can speak from experience that we often received outside help from our competitors when it was most needed. The fact that I might go out and beat them never entered their minds; they just wanted good clean racing, and the best car/driver to win. In this respect the boys/men from Ford from Boreham were without equal.
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Old 13 May 2017, 09:05 (Ref:3733145)   #445
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Alonso does a lap....things are on the up an up now.
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Old 13 May 2017, 13:31 (Ref:3733205)   #446
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Pay this bloke whatever he asks but DO NOT let him leave!

How the hell did Mr Alonso drag that bucket firstly to Q3 and then to 7th!

Round of applause required!
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Old 13 May 2017, 13:39 (Ref:3733210)   #447
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McLaren & Honda To Split

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Old 13 May 2017, 13:44 (Ref:3733216)   #448
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Round of applause required!
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Old 13 May 2017, 13:57 (Ref:3733222)   #449
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Pay this bloke whatever he asks but DO NOT let him leave!

How the hell did Mr Alonso drag that bucket firstly to Q3 and then to 7th!

Round of applause required!
Before everyone gets too excited, let's see how it does in tomorrow's race.
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Old 13 May 2017, 14:55 (Ref:3733230)   #450
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Before everyone gets too excited, let's see how it does in tomorrow's race.
The Honda will blow up. That's almost a given now

The potential in the chassis seems to be there, which you might not have said abouttoo many recent McLarens.
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