[BTCC] 2014 BTCC Croft (Rds 13-15)

[Clive Brown]

Send Plato to NASCAR. He'd soon learn some track manners there, as the Good Ol' Boys would be more than happy to plant his face into a wall.

[FIRE]

Despite all the contact I enjoyed the races.

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

anyone surprised a bit the MG isn't as potent anymore ? looks like they lost their mojo after Donington , they are slower than some FWD cars, (Hondas, and now even BMR Passats or Wix Mercedes) nevermind the WSR Beamers...

Instead of blaming RWD maybe Plato should blame 888 for getting behind Dynamics, Jordan and WSR.

[Tja]

While I did support the change to the first gear for the RWD cars, you really have to say Plato should concentrate on his own driving before claiming RWD is a quicker package overall. He had a decent first race but the car just wasn't quick enough. It seemed like he and the team never managed to improve the car and his race three result showed that. Even Menu managed to get by from the rear of the field.
Their clash in race two summed up Plato's driving over the weekend to me. It looked to me likea major misjudgement (which he should've admitted straight away) that really shouldn't happen to such an experienced driver. He just focused on finding the closest microphone to tell his opinion rather than doing his driving properly.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Knowing Plato, he realised that he was an outsider and as a result, cried to Alan Gow to get him back to winning ways, instead of crying to Ian Harrison...

[geordiecriag101]

Got them sorted at last, here.s my pics n vid from sunday's action, all comments welcome as always.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7a0yw8sHlA

https://www.flickr.com/photos/geordi...7645493546133/

[BtccLee]

(Sorry for the very long nature of this post, it has taken some time for me to consider everything from the weekend. I will proabably post it to the main BTCC forum as I feel all of the issues I discuss are relevant there too and it is intersting to get different people discussing the same thing. It is not some sort of vanity parade of my opinion.)

For me, there is only one thing spoiling the Dunlop MSA British Touring Car Championship in 2014. Frankly, it is some of the other fans.

It just seems there is an atmosphere that a lot of people are desperately searching for reasons to downgrade the series, instead of focussing on the many and varied positives that we are so fortunate to have. I am not claiming the championship will not have issues but frankly many of those are being exaggerated by fans to use as a stick to beat the series with.

Let us look at Croft. First the longer first gear of the Rear Wheel Drive cars.

Now, the BMWs and the Audis were still faster off the line than the Front Wheel Drive entrants but were only able to make up one position as opposed to three or four. I would say that was a successful move by TOCA. Did it affect their pace? Not one jot. The only issue was the fact that ONE of the Rear Wheel Drive cars had a failure related to this new ratio. Unfortunately, this happened to be the championship leader, the darling of the fans and the admittedly very lovely Colin Turkington. As such, it drew far more attention than it would have if this failure had been on any of the other cars. If it had been on Hunter Abbott’s Audi, nobody would have cared.

Let us not forget the external circumstances, I am discussing the failure of the lights at the start of race one. If this had not happened, placing extra pressure on the clutches, perhaps Turkington’s failure would never have happened. Maybe this extra pressure would have affected Turkington’s car, longer first gear or not.

Then the standards of officiating. Now within the seconds of the incident between Plato and Menu in race two, fingers were tapping on key boards instantaneously demanding that the MG man lose his position, his license and one suspects a demand was probably made for his head. Instantly we were told that TOCA would not do anything about it, that they would support Jason. Like they did in the incident with Turkington at Oulton Park in race three eh!

Exclusion and nothing less would do, clearly a deliberate manoeuvre. Yet, when you see the replays, it is clear Plato is trying for the cut back and has made a misjudgement, a mistake in other words. Not a malicious attempt to remove Mr Menu but an attempt at an intelligent fight back that went wrong.

A ten place penalty is duly ordered, significant as it removed Plato’s advantage from the reversed grid draw and puts him amongst the mid-field, where there is always likely to be incident. Frankly he would have been safer starting at the back. Then we have the immediate declaration that this is a special “Plato Penalty”, specifically tailored to preserve his championship momentum.

Then we have the chaotic start to race three and Andrew Jordan is involved in an incident with Fabrizio Giovanardi that sends the Italian into a spectacular spin which sees him collect a bale and severely damage his Focus. Jordan is duly given a ten place penalty for the incident. Wait I hear you cry, the same penalty as Plato? Yes, for a similar incident, in fact one that you could argue could have had far more serious consequences than the JP and Menu one. For a start, the incident took place at a higher speed section of track where drivers should be being more alert.

That is just the tip of a negative iceberg. Everyone batters the low grids that populate the support championships, yet very few people acknowledge the tremendous racing they are producing. TOCA and the MSA have taken control of driving standards and track limits respectively. Yet suddenly everybody is happy with the bumping and barging and TOCA are ruining the series! The MSA gives a clear rule on track limits to clear up the issue and suddenly the whole notion of sticking to the black stuff is ridiculous.

The BTCC has me hooked in 2014 and has done nothing to change that fact. Interacting with other fans has consistently saddened me in 2014 for want of a better word and is apparently not going to stop.

[Greem]

Some other fans.

[BtccLee]

Originally Posted by Greem

Some other fans.

Fair point, duly editted.

[Craner Curves]

God forbid we dare make any constructive criticism.....

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by BtccLee

[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Let us look at Croft. First the longer first gear of the Rear Wheel Drive cars.

what about the issue pointed out by Dick Bennets that FWD can look their diff in qualy and gain some more palces while the RWD can't do that

in essence 2-3 places gained at start for RWD is restoring the natural order in a way

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

God forbid we dare make any constructive criticism.....

Ah, but you see, that's the point: a lot of the criticism levelled at the series is in no way constructive. It's rabid, polarised, not-very-well constructed (not referring to here, by the way, this is an island of sanity in comparison to some other fora) and territorial.

The series has grown in popularity, and with it has brought a lot of new fans, some of whom who are rather polemical about their feelings.

In turn, some of those who stuck with it through the thin times look back at the halcyon days of yore and yearn to get back there.

Well, that isn't happening; we're here, and the old days are long gone.

*However*: the polarity I mention is drummed up, very well I might add, by ITV4's insistence on interviewing certain drivers every 5 minutes. For those who are fans of said drivers, this is great; for those who aren't it's just something more to complain about. And complain they do.

Oh, and about those halcyon days of yore... driving standards now are almost perfect in comparison.

(some of the above is written with tongue firmly in cheek, so take a deep breath before replying )

[codename_47]

I agree with BTCCLee (And looked for 5 mins for a way to give him rep for that post, have we taken that feature away now? )

After Oulton Park people moaned the racing was dull and they needed urgent changes to improve things

After a more frenetic Croft, people moaned that too much happened and the series had low driving standards, favoritism, inconsistency in the rules and generally love looking down on it.

You can't have it both ways.
Personally I'd much rather defend exciting races like we got at Croft (all 9 of them. AND the Porsches were there too ) than talk up dull meetings like Oulton.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Personally I'd have Thruxton (bar the Church corner crashes) where no drivers started arguments with each other and/or TOCA and the racing was very good. You can't have it both ways, but you can have the best of both, and we've had it before.

However this is the BTCC, and that means there are controversial incidents, and drivers who think that they are bigger than the series, but the less, the better

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

God forbid we dare make any constructive criticism.....

But this is something I agree with. If an incident does arise, why can we not voice our opinions? That is the reason most of us joined this forum anyway.

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by codename_47

I agree with BTCCLee (And looked for 5 mins for a way to give him rep for that post, have we taken that feature away now? )

After Oulton Park people moaned the racing was dull and they needed urgent changes to improve things

After a more frenetic Croft, people moaned that too much happened and the series had low driving standards, favoritism, inconsistency in the rules and generally love looking down on it.

It's always been the case. There's a mental meeting where all hell breaks loose, the CotC kicks a lot of bottoms and the next one is dull. Just that it's been done in the reverse this time.

[BillWiskins]

Good post, Mr Lee.

And no-one is suggesting that anyone not be allowed to post their opinion. I'd personally just prefer it if there were a bit less nonsense (this 'TOCA are at the mercy of Jason Plato' thing really needs to stop. It's just silly).

[Madd_Dogg88]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

God forbid we dare make any constructive criticism.....

Precisely. This is a forum, and its sole purpose is to discuss fact and opinion. And our sole purpose for being here is to share.

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

Personally I'd have Thruxton (bar the Church corner crashes) where no drivers started arguments with each other and/or TOCA and the racing was very good. You can't have it both ways, but you can have the best of both, and we've had it before.

However this is the BTCC, and that means there are controversial incidents, and drivers who think that they are bigger than the series, but the less, the better

This is, I think, what a lot of people are getting at (and it's the way that I feel). There is a lot that is right about the BTCC in terms of grid numbers, promotion, competition etc. etc. etc. But most of the frustration is born from certain characters - this could be easily eliminated at no detriment to the racing. If certain drivers weren't given such a loud voice, the racing wouldn't change. It's unnecessary and thus gets people riled up. The loud voices, combined with often unfortunate timing in terms of decision making, makes for an incredibly frustrating situation.

As for the officiating, again there is frustration (from my point of view at least) not with consistency, but fairness. Sure, this year they have really cracked down on a number of things, but the punishment just doesn't seem to fit the crime. It's consistent, but consistently unfair. I watch as many different racing series' from across the globe as I can and one thing that holds true for the vast majority is that if you ruin someone's race, then yours should be too. Be it by drive through, stop and go, sin bin/penalty box or out and out exclusion. I can't think of any other series off of the ovals where you would be able to punt a driver out of the lead - misjudgement or not - and keep a win. A 10-place grid penalty has far from the same effect. And often, it seems apparent that these sorts of penalties are handed out so that the championship battle remains unaffected, which is fingers down the blackboard for purest racing fans. Sure that penalty was handed out to two drivers for similar incidents, but that penalty in itself was flat wrong.

It's 2014 and sporting standards should be better than that. It's 2014 and professional sports people should behave better than that. If you throw all of these things together, of course you're going to p*** some people off. And those people are most likely to be the ones that live and breathe their favourite championship and want to see it treated with a bit more respect. And those people, when p****d off are going to jump on a forum and air their feelings. But hell, that's why we're here. For the joy of sharing, for the joy of debating, and for the joy of expressing just how stupid, crazy and passionate we are about this stuff!

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by Madd_Dogg88

Precisely. This is a forum, and its sole purpose is to discuss fact and opinion. And our sole purpose for being here is to share.



This is, I think, what a lot of people are getting at (and it's the way that I feel). There is a lot that is right about the BTCC in terms of grid numbers, promotion, competition etc. etc. etc. But most of the frustration is born from certain characters - this could be easily eliminated at no detriment to the racing. If certain drivers weren't given such a loud voice, the racing wouldn't change. It's unnecessary and thus gets people riled up. The loud voices, combined with often unfortunate timing in terms of decision making, makes for an incredibly frustrating situation.

As for the officiating, again there is frustration (from my point of view at least) not with consistency, but fairness. Sure, this year they have really cracked down on a number of things, but the punishment just doesn't seem to fit the crime. It's consistent, but consistently unfair. I watch as many different racing series' from across the globe as I can and one thing that holds true for the vast majority is that if you ruin someone's race, then yours should be too. Be it by drive through, stop and go, sin bin/penalty box or out and out exclusion. I can't think of any other series off of the ovals where you would be able to punt a driver out of the lead - misjudgement or not - and keep a win. A 10-place grid penalty has far from the same effect. And often, it seems apparent that these sorts of penalties are handed out so that the championship battle remains unaffected, which is fingers down the blackboard for purest racing fans. Sure that penalty was handed out to two drivers for similar incidents, but that penalty in itself was flat wrong.

It's 2014 and sporting standards should be better than that. It's 2014 and professional sports people should behave better than that. If you throw all of these things together, of course you're going to p*** some people off. And those people are most likely to be the ones that live and breathe their favourite championship and want to see it treated with a bit more respect. And those people, when p****d off are going to jump on a forum and air their feelings. But hell, that's why we're here. For the joy of sharing, for the joy of debating, and for the joy of expressing just how stupid, crazy and passionate we are about this stuff!

Could not agree more. The fans may be vocal, but it's only as a response to the "professionals" doing something controversial. If you don't like it, then quite frankly, what else did you expect when you joined a forum? Everyone to be unanimous in everything? People to remain silent when confronted with controversy? If so I really envy your friends

[steve_r]

I'm not exactly sure how best to respond. On one hand, there is a very small number of people who enjoy deriding the BTCC, and writing it off as little more than banger racing, because it does not fit with their pre-conceived idea of what a racing series should be like. Fair enough – go and do your own thing. I don’t understand the reason why they would continue to watch it and complain week after week though.

On the other hand, you have other people who are far too overprotective and hate to hear any criticism at all about the series. If you do not want to see people complain this week’s numbskull move(s) and the complete and utter hypocrisy that a certain driver may be displaying, or hear people debate about what can be perceived as knee-jerk rule changes or a baffling stewards decisions, then perhaps you should go and lock yourself away from the outside world, put your fingers in your ears, cover your eyes and pretend that everyone in the whole world agrees with you.

The whole point of a forum is for people to be able to express their opinions – good or bad about something. You don’t have to agree.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Having watched the AJ/Gio incident again, the replay shows that Gio has a little wobble entering Barcroft (which is surely cold tyres?) and as a result loses speed, and then cuts to the inside of the track on the exit. AJ sees this lack of speed, and dives up the inside of the circuit on the exit... ...straight into the back of Gio, and doesn't seem to back out, forcing Gio off. Plato's incident is more simple - he just turns into the back of Menu's car.

[Rob877]

I've been quite surprised at how scathing Rob Austin has been about driving standards at the weekend. As far as I could see he was the master of his own undoing in races 2 and 3, both times going for ever diminsishing gaps. I must say though I really enjoyed the whole days racing.

[porsche962fan]

now that Alain Menu scored very big in Jack Sears trophy "thanks" to a certain moaner can we expect that Alain may voluntarly start from the pit lane near season end if his lead is threatened ? since at least he shouldn't leave this season empty handed..

does anyone know what the situation is regarding Menu and Gio, did they sign just for 1 year or perhaps 2 years ?

and any odds on Matt Neals broken finger ? perhaps this time they should really replace him since he is already out of the title fight with 101 points behind and 93 points behind his team mate...

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

In fairness, Neal's luck has gone this season, as has AJ's.

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

and any odds on Matt Neals broken finger ? perhaps this time they should really replace him since he is already out of the title fight with 101 points behind and 93 points behind his team mate...

Seriously. Stop going on about his finger. Yawn.

[porsche962fan]

strong words towards Plato by Dick Bennets

We have spent a lot of money through the winter on R&D to get the car to the position it is in now so for Jason to say that they have developed FWD to their limit is rubbish. The Honda’s are beating them and they are FWD.

Before he jumps onto his high horse he needs to look at what the other FWD cars are doing as well. They aren’t slow because we see them all at the top of the speed traps when we look through the data.

Another thing that is frustrating is when we see 1-2 finishes for MG and Honda, we don’t complain, we just work harder.