Barber Motorsports Park Challenge

[tlongman]

As some of you may know, Grand Am and Indycar are holding races at Barber Motorsports Park this weekend. IMO this is one of the best tracks in the US due to its constant undulations and beautiful scenery. It does have 1 major problem however: It is nearly impossible to pass. Apart from Indianapolis, this is the only road course in America that the FIA has deemed suitable for F1. In its current state however, the track is too small and too hard to pass on for F1 to consider racing there. Your challenge: Expand the track and create at least 1 more passing zone so it could host the American round of the Formula 1 World Championship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ba...ports_Park.svg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgJwUfI5oGs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcoSLv29ows

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by tlongman

Apart from Indianapolis, this is the only road course in America that the FIA has deemed suitable for F1.

It was given a Grade 1T licence so that USF1 could test there, not Grade 1 (which is needed for races). In most cases it would not be difficult to get a 1T circuit up to 1, but Barber Motorsports Park is too short - the IndyCar pole time was around 1:10, F1 cars would be able to go comfortably under a minute.

[tlongman]

Oh ok I didn't know there was a difference. But that's my challenge. Expand it so the track is suitable for F1.

[Purist]

Duke, you might like to know that actually Appendix o of the FIA regulations only demands a 3.5km lap for an F1 Grand Prix circuit. Therefore, technically, the lap at Barber IS long enough. However, I would agree that it would help to reconfigure things to make overtaking more possible.

[duke_toaster]

Yes, the minimum is 3.5km, but they would not be likely to grant a licence to it though as it is so twisty. It's not that wide, either.

[dyewat808]

I admit I like this circuit,I don't know what it is about it, good flow or something. I prefer it to other circuits like Watkins Glen, for some reason - I just can't put my finger on it...

I'll have a crack at this at some point.

[Purist]

The start/finish straight might need a little widening, but the rest is just fine on width. Minimum width for Grade 2 or 1 circuits is 12m (40ft); Barber is 45ft wide. Also, despite its twisty nature, Barber would be faster than Singapore, Valencia, Hungaroring, or the 2010 layout at Bahrain.

Dye, I like Barber more than I used to, but Watkins Glen is still definitely a better road course in my estimation.

[marcel82]

it'd be hard to expand this track without losing a great corner; they all have a unique character that makes them quite challenging for a driver, except maybe the hairpin and the final turn.

[dyewat808]

Originally Posted by marcel82

it'd be hard to expand this track without losing a great corner; they all have a unique character that makes them quite challenging for a driver, except maybe the hairpin and the final turn.

I think that is what makes it for me. Purist, I still rate Watkins Glen very highly in racing terms, but in track design - Barber, I think its because of what marcel said, each corner has its own different feel to it.

[Quintin03]

I'm not doing this, it's too good as it is. I can't make it any better. I'm not doing anything to a track that's fine as it is.

[NaBUru38]

It's impossible to make room for F1-grade runoff areas, so I'll instead modify the track to make it suitable for IndyCar. Only two corners are visibly needed to be changed, the hairpin-chicane and the second left-right esses, and I have two proposals for each. Then, the first corner and the good hairpin must be widened two or three meters. Finally, a (dismountable) kerb must be added to the inside of the first corner, so cars have to brake more and drivers can outbrake their rivals.

[Birddog07]

I like NaBUru38's drawing, with a turn 7 of the second one, and turn 11/12 of th second.

The chicane at 9/10 should be taken out and the cars have a long sweeping flatout backstraight IMO. Course seems alittle short at 2.3 miles, but more laps so I guess that's good.

To lengthen it, I'd say add a fast extension sort of like Road Atlanta. Go straight at turn 13 going up the hill, going over the paddock road, possibly alittle scenic woods drive, hairpin and chicane right before pit entry and rejoining the track for turn 15.

I think those would make the current track better, aswell as adding an extension that is good to watch the cars full throttle, and probalbly 2 good passing zones.

I also think that this track is suitable for F1 competition, obviously it needs garages, bigger grandstands, and probalbly a wider (and longer, bring turn 15 back alittle possibly, could create another passing zone aswell) front straight. If the FIA thought the track part was 'unsafe' I don't think it would have recieved 1T.

Anyways, don't think these changes will be made. Maybe a few turns tweeked and a road added at 9/10 to take it straight, but that's all I realistically think would get done. Shame because I would love a USGP here.

[NaBUru38]

Cutting the esses would hardly create an overtaking spot with such a fast corner, plus its runoff area is too tight now. A better solution would be a less tight chicane than mine, which would help drivers overtake more safely (compare Monza's and Interlagos' first chicanes). But that would need a larger revamp.

Drivers were talking about a chicane at turn 9/10, so that can happen for next year.

[Purist]

A chicane there won't help. The run from Turn 8 to 9/10 is too short for that to really work.

[Birddog07]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Cutting the esses would hardly create an overtaking spot with such a fast corner, plus its runoff area is too tight now. A better solution would be a less tight chicane than mine, which would help drivers overtake more safely (compare Monza's and Interlagos' first chicanes). But that would need a larger revamp.

Drivers were talking about a chicane at turn 9/10, so that can happen for next year.

Well a tight hairpin at the esses should slow cars down and allow an overtaking spot.

Also, I'd like to add on my extension idea, the loop should go up, hairpin, then fast esses on the way down like Road America then slow chicane before rejoining the track at pit enterance.

[Purist]

Birddog, I think we're going to need a visual of what you have in mind.

[Birddog07]

I'll get to that.

[Birddog07]

Can't edit anymore?



Something like that. It could go an wrap around the paddock aswell, that loop is just something general. Could be better to have a kink like 130R rather than sweeping. And all the way to that hairpin is pretty much uphill.

[Mike_Wooshy]

my 2 cents

[dyewat808]

Ok, here's my quick attempt.

My thinking behind it:
1-lengthen the pits
2-keep the doubling-back nature of the track in the extension.

[Maybe it hasn't quite retained the original's nature ]

Done in Sketchup, then imported into Google Earth. Track width's the same, pit length is about 500 m, track length around 5.5 km.

[nickyf1]

I have concentrated on different areas to most other people here.

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=3645710

I like the track the way it is already, it looks nice, so I decided to keep all of the corners, but extend the track out in places, if you know what I mean. Apart from the last section obviously as you can see.

[dyewat808]

I liked that nickyf1. So much so that I used the "extend in bits" idea in another one of mine:

LINK

3.19 miles. Like my previous one, has a longer straight for pits. I tried to design it so that run-off wouldn't be too short, unlike the current design, yet keep as much of the character of the current track as possible.

I like this one more than my previous one, I think.

[Flaming_Wuzzle]

Total length should be around 3.3 mi. I've kept all of the existing track except for what I've had to leave out for the extension.

The new track splits off from T13 and goes downhill through T16. Track heads back uphill through the T17/18 esses until T19, with a sharp drop like the Corkscrew. Bottoms out in T21 (the turn that leads onto the straight) and goes up slightly to T22, then back over the hill and down to the existing course, rejoining in the middle of T14a.

[nickyf1]

And now I take it too far
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=3645945

[tlongman]

Originally Posted by Flaming_Wuzzle

Total length should be around 3.3 mi. I've kept all of the existing track except for what I've had to leave out for the extension.

The new track splits off from T13 and goes downhill through T16. Track heads back uphill through the T17/18 esses until T19, with a sharp drop like the Corkscrew. Bottoms out in T21 (the turn that leads onto the straight) and goes up slightly to T22, then back over the hill and down to the existing course, rejoining in the middle of T14a.

Now THAT is what I'm looking for! Fantastic job! Nice presentation and description too. It still might be a bit too hard to pass but I like how it maintains the organic feel of the track and doesn't eliminate too much of the existing track. (which I frankly find to be brilliant but it's just too short) You've gained my approval!