What if Schumacher had never retired?

[Mr V]

Schumacher and Kimi at Ferrari, Fernando and Lewis at McLaren, it would have been all out war!

[Bononi]

Wow ! I just can imagine that ! What a season, oh my, the best ever !

TGF & Kimi, Teflonso & Hamilton !

Could anyone ask for more ?

I want the details, give me the details !

[Graz]

I'll it again, for someone the wrong side of 40 coming back after 3 years and against a highy regarded hungry team-mate, I think he's doing a better job than people are giving him credit for. He wants to do it and enjoys it so good luck to him I say.

[strider]

He's doing a good job, one most drivers would be proud of, but he's the legendary/notorious, win at-all-costs, seven-times WDC Schumi. He should be doing a great job, but he's not.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Bononi

I want the details, give me the details !

Lots of cheating, one word answers, money grabbing, and crashing.

All of which would probably come second to finger pointing.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by strider

He's doing a good job, one most drivers would be proud of, but he's the legendary/notorious, win at-all-costs, seven-times WDC Schumi. He should be doing a great job, but he's not.

He was win at all costs. He's now a 43 year old man with different capabilities and different priorities. He has nothing left to accomplish and is out there to enjoy his racing. It's as simple as that. For example, you don't see many F1 drivers changing their own kart tyres during the off season, do you.

[JeremySmith]

Good one!

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by davyboy

For example, you don't see many F1 drivers changing their own kart tyres during the off season, do you.

He obviously can't afford a mechanic!!!!

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by davyboy

He was win at all costs. He's now a 43 year old man with different capabilities and different priorities. He has nothing left to accomplish and is out there to enjoy his racing. It's as simple as that. For example, you don't see many F1 drivers changing their own kart tyres during the off season, do you.

TGF does that ! Amazing !

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Bononi

TGF does that ! Amazing !

If you're a kart racer, you'll know how much of a pain in the ass [or should I say hands (!)] getting tyres on and off the rims is... it's definitely something you'd pay to have done unless you really were an enthusiast. Respect to the guy !

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by davyboy

If you're a kart racer, you'll know how much of a pain in the ass [or should I say hands (!)] getting tyres on and off the rims is... it's definitely something you'd pay to have done unless you really were an enthusiast. Respect to the guy !

I am and I do, that's why I said it was amazing, he's forty what ? I'm forty nine...

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Bononi

I am and I do, that's why I said it was amazing, he's forty what ? I'm forty nine...

You obviously can't afford a mechanic either mate

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Mr V

You obviously can't afford a mechanic either mate

Spot on ! It's weird to have something in common with TGF, though I think I'm better fit than him !!!

[Aysedasi]

Better looking as well, surely???

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Better looking as well, surely???

Oh yeah !

[stripedcat]

I think we have to say that in 2005 and 2006 Schumi was still fast, but maybe lost some of his speed. 2006 was close I admit, and maybe if Schumi had not had the engine failure at Suzuka he might have been able to take that title.

As for 2007, well, assuming that Kimi had gone to Ferrari(with Massa being test driver), and Hamilton and Alonso were at McLaren, there could have been another Schumi title. It might have been close. I think the McLaren duo would have bickered and taken points off of each other. Kimi would have taken some wins for sure(Spa being the obvious one), but I think over the season that Schumi would have been stronger over the course of the season.

2008 I think would have been Hammy's title. The McLaren was the faster car and with no Alonso to trouble him I think Hammy would have still taken the title. Yes, he made mistakes(Canada and Japan stand out) but I think he would have still taken the title as he had more raw speed than Schumi, plus the car performance advantage.

I am no Schumi fan, but it has achieved some amazing feats in F1. I actually think that some of his best drives where when he had to race for them and not rely on Ross Brawn's strategy. I am thinking of drives like Belgium 1995(he made Hill look like an amateur that day and won from so far back) and Spain 1996(pouring with rain and in an uncompetitive car he took a massive lead to win there).

[henners88]

Originally Posted by stripedcat

2008 I think would have been Hammy's title. The McLaren was the faster car and with no Alonso to trouble him I think Hammy would have still taken the title. Yes, he made mistakes(Canada and Japan stand out) but I think he would have still taken the title as he had more raw speed than Schumi, plus the car performance advantage.

Based on pole positions, fastest laps and race wins, I would say the Ferrari was the faster car during 2008. It was a fascinating year and a real development race but I think Ferrari lost the title that year. I did feel Lewis deserved it though for how unlucky he was the previous year and he was more consistent than the competition even though he made many mistakes himself. I think had Schumacher been in the mix, we may have seen an epic battle however.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by henners88

I think had Schumacher been in the mix, we may have seen an epic battle however.

Yep, I agree with you there... I think even the anti-Schumacher camp would have to concord with that one too

[Bononi]

But TGF would never race alongside Raikkonen.

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Oh, that's why he retired !

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by stripedcat

2006 was close I admit, and maybe if Schumi had not had the engine failure at Suzuka he might have been able to take that title.

Michael had 2 retirements in 2006, the same amount as Fernando so i think its fairly even. Saying had Michael not had the failure at Suzuka is like saying, had Fernando not had his reitrement at (wherever) he'd have won the title a further 10 points ahead.

[Razzzor]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Michael had 2 retirements in 2006, the same amount as Fernando so i think its fairly even. Saying had Michael not had the failure at Suzuka is like saying, had Fernando not had his reitrement at (wherever) he'd have won the title a further 10 points ahead.

Yeah but the difference is MS's happened right at the end of the year. He had no chance to make up for it. Engine gone, title hopes gone.

Alonso's retirements he still had the opportunity to make up for the lost points.

I'd certainly rather have 2 retirements at the start of the year than at the end of the year.

[Mr V]

Michaels retirements were Australia (3 races into season) and Japan (2 races from end of season)

Fernandos were Hungary and Italy (4 and 6 races from end respectively)

So i'd say that they were fairly evened out. If not, on average, later for Fernando.

[Frans]

I think that if Michael did not have retired after the 2006 season he still would not have been able to win any title. As said, Kimi signed already and with Michael still there in 2007 allong side Kimi, I think the world would have been in for a shock. Michael was already losing the political part what he needed so hard. I believe that Kimi would have wiped the floor with Michael in qualifying and races. However I do not think that Kimi would have won the 2007 title if Michael was there at Ferrari driving as well. They would have taken each others points. Because Kimi would never be a "Irvine" or "Rubens" or a so called 2nd-slave driver to Michael.

Luca dropped Michael and forced him to retire, because even Michael knew that if he would not have the political support from Ferrari (and the FIA) he would not be able to do it "his way". Lets also not forget that Michael was already becoming slower in 2006, the only reason why he was somehow "in the race" for the title was because of those politcal moves from the 2nd-slave driver.... People forget so easily that Michael only could compete untill the end of a season point wise, because of the 2nd driver to move over so often for him at the end of races. That would have never been the case with Kimi allongside him at Ferrari.

Schumacher however even tried to stop Kimi in 2007 from getting the title. He was still working for Ferrari in 2007, but wasn't at the track during ALL the races. Just look it up. Almost every race where Michael was at the pitbox from Ferrari during a race, those where the races what went bad for Kimi. I suspect that Michael did try to sabotage his car or at least his performance during a race. And the races where Michael wasn't present, where Kimi's best results. It's of course not probable, and purely speculation but the statistics talk enough if you ask me.

If Michael would not have retired after 2006, he would have before the 2009 season for sure, and then he would have never been back. Am also wondering why the hell he ever DID come back.... but that's another thread/topic eh/ ?

Kind regards,

Frans

[Born Racer]

Hi Frans. Welcome to .

I hope you enjoy being here.

However I do not think that Kimi would have won the 2007 title if Michael was there at Ferrari driving as well. They would have taken each others points.

Alonso and Hamilton were also taking points off each other though, so it could have gone either way.

Because Kimi would never be a "Irvine" or "Rubens" or a so called 2nd-slave driver to Michael.

Luca dropped Michael and forced him to retire

I don't know if Luca dropped Michael, but I agree Kimi would not have signed to be a number 2 and Michael also knew this.

I always thought Michael didn't fancy going up against a driver he knew was potentially his equal and I don't know if it was out of pride or out of a sort of 'maximising his chances' philosophy (a bit like when people say Senna wasn't scared of Warwick, but knew Lotus apparently couldn't run two cars to an equal level).

I suspect that Michael did try to sabotage his car or at least his performance during a race.

I think that's too far fetched. As you acknowledge yourself:

It's of course not probable, and purely speculation but the statistics talk enough if you ask me.

Am also wondering why the hell he ever DID come back.... but that's another thread/topic eh/ ?

I think he came back because I think he loves racing and competing, and I think some of the pride of legacy has gone and been replaced with an attitude that says that he should enjoy doing what he does best in life, because you only get one life and why stop doing something just because people bang on about legacy, and for that I am delighted he remains in the sport. There is an irony there, because I suspect he didn't fancy going up against Kimi, but is now of course going up against Nico and has been getting beaten by him so far. Let's see whether that continues this year.

[Bononi]

I think he doesn't give a **** !





Oh, that's Kimi saying