Race pace vs Qualy pace ?

Zico · 26 Mar 2012, 21:38 (Ref:3049042)

Hamilton lost the lead through pit-stop problems but admitted he had not been able to keep pace with winner Fernando Alonso and runner-up Sergio Perez.

"We're still competitive but, in the race, I have to go and look at the pace of the other people," he said.

"We need to improve our race pace, I think our race pace could be better."

BBC Sport - Lewis Hamilton says McLaren need to improve race pace

I've found it quite odd that McLaren in particular have a clear qualifying pace advantage over the other teams yet in the race seem to be no faster than anyone else. Why are they not setting up their dynamics more towards race pace or is there a lot more to it than that?

Is it still too early with just three test sessions and two races to have a full understanding of the accumulated data... or..... maybe they also have a DRS dependant front wing system like Mercedes?

wnut · 26 Mar 2012, 22:04 (Ref:3049054)

If you think that McLaren is having problems with this, look at Mercedes!
It appears that getting pace out of the tyres is different from getting durability!
If the car can heat the tyre properly in qualifying, it will overheat it in the race.

Spritle · 26 Mar 2012, 23:43 (Ref:3049096)

Considering they topped the time-sheets in practice, covered P1 & P2 at both races and dominated Australia; the only weak result besides Lewis' bad start at Melbourne was a disastrous wet/drying race race because of rubbish stops, Jenson's blunder and conditions that didn't favour them.

Lewis should worry more about the lads in the pit crew getting their act together. I think the car is fine as much as I hate to admit it.

Marbot · 27 Mar 2012, 00:19 (Ref:3049104)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritle

Lewis should worry more about the lads in the pit crew getting their act together.

Not sure that they actually did anything wrong.

It certainly true that the teams haven't currently got much of a clue about how these Pirelli tyres behave in certain conditions. Which IMO is a good thing, but no doubt they'll figure them out as the season goes on.

JeremySmith · 27 Mar 2012, 00:24 (Ref:3049108)

Very slow pitstops for Lewis from McLaren...

Marbot · 27 Mar 2012, 00:30 (Ref:3049110)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Very slow pitstops for Lewis from McLaren...

Well, the one that cost him dearly was the one where he missed his marks, and then they had to wait for other cars in the pit lane. Sometimes crap like that happens through no fault of anyone. But his race pace was such that he probably wouldn't have gained another position over what he had achieved.

**Bononi** · 27 Mar 2012, 00:34 (Ref:3049112)

So, the fault is the tyres, always the tyres.

JeremySmith · 27 Mar 2012, 00:37 (Ref:3049113)

No Scott is right there was traffic in the pitlane that held Lewis up, but the rear jackman was slow...

JeremySmith · 27 Mar 2012, 00:40 (Ref:3049115)

It's just racing...

Marbot · 27 Mar 2012, 00:43 (Ref:3049116)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

but the rear jackman was slow...

Indeed he was, but as it happened, it made no difference.

Back on topic.

Yes there is something going on with the tyres that means getting it right in qualifying doesn't necessarily mean that you've got it right for the race. In fact, if it had been a dry race, and Kimi had not had a penalty, I would have put money on Raikkonen being on the podium, at least.

JeremySmith · 27 Mar 2012, 00:50 (Ref:3049121)

Agreed, that is a pain the qualifying versus the race, tyre wise...

**Bononi** · 27 Mar 2012, 01:51 (Ref:3049135)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

Indeed he was, but as it happened, it made no difference.

Back on topic.

Yes there is something going on with the tyres that means getting it right in qualifying doesn't necessarily mean that you've got it right for the race. In fact, if it had been a dry race, and Kimi had not had a penalty, I would have put money on Raikkonen being on the podium, at least.

Oh, the-might-have-been...

Zico · 27 Mar 2012, 08:36 (Ref:3049227)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

If you think that McLaren is having problems with this, look at Mercedes!
It appears that getting pace out of the tyres is different from getting durability!
If the car can heat the tyre properly in qualifying, it will overheat it in the race.

Ah.. that makes more sense than the road I was thinking down. I'd put Mercedes qualifying pace mainly down to their fancy double DRS system than them being too harsh on their tyres and was thinking McLaren may have a similar but more discreet 'passive' front wing system that would somewhat explain their similar race pace hit.

Yes the poor pitstops may have lost them track position but its incredible that Lewis just could not close the gap on Perez and Alonso and this is in a car which was around 1.3-1.4 seconds faster than both in qualifying.

Pingguest · 27 Mar 2012, 09:13 (Ref:3049249)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

So, the fault is the tyres, always the tyres.

As it was intended by the legislator.

***MagnetON*** · 27 Mar 2012, 09:16 (Ref:3049252)

I hardly think that one street race and one wet/changable/dry race are conclusive that any car has a change of pace between qually and race. Need a few "normal" races to start thinking about that.

JamesH · 27 Mar 2012, 13:15 (Ref:3049404)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zico

Yes the poor pitstops may have lost them track position but its incredible that Lewis just could not close the gap on Perez and Alonso and this is in a car which was around 1.3-1.4 seconds faster than both in qualifying.

Much faster in the dry and in much hotter conditions. But apart from that....

Marbot · 27 Mar 2012, 14:26 (Ref:3049456)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

So, the fault is the tyres, always the tyres.

Not sure that there is any 'fault' with the tyres?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pingguest

As it was intended by the legislator.

Indeed it was, but the alternative, if Michelin had got the contract, would have been more than one tyre manufacturer creating tyres that would penalize a team or driver for not making them last long enough. The idea was to be as 'green' as possible by making the team/driver that used the least amount of tyres benefit in some way.

What we don't need is too much focus put on so and so's tyre condition, and it having some bearing on how it will affect them during the next race.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagnetON

I hardly think that one street race and one wet/changable/dry race are conclusive that any car has a change of pace between qually and race. Need a few "normal" races to start thinking about that.

Correct.

Massa_number1 · 27 Mar 2012, 16:40 (Ref:3049509)

I agree with the person who said about Mercedes with the "double DRS" advantage in Quali.The car seems the exact same as last year in race trim.

of course thats only going by what we have seen in the first 2 races but a pattern is emerging its a shame though I wish Schumacher had a good car in the races to fight with he has clearly proven he still has the speed

Marbot · 27 Mar 2012, 16:43 (Ref:3049510)

Ross Brawn did say that they were going to set up the car more for the race than for qualifying. Maybe it's that they simply need to keep going in that direction?

luke g28 · 27 Mar 2012, 22:59 (Ref:3049743)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

Not sure that they actually did anything wrong.

It certainly true that the teams haven't currently got much of a clue about how these Pirelli tyres behave in certain conditions. Which IMO is a good thing, but no doubt they'll figure them out as the season goes on.

couple of hours with a laptop ought to do it?

Marbot · 27 Mar 2012, 23:26 (Ref:3049758)

Quote:

Originally Posted by luke g28

couple of hours with a laptop ought to do it?

That may well be the case.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
(Argo) Pace Race Jack spares	R59	Racing Technology	2	19 Dec 2006 23:56
Opening race pace versus qualifying	KC	Formula One	6	24 May 2004 19:48
Practise pace to race pace.	Also a Believer	Australasian Touring Cars.	3	29 Apr 2004 05:53
Renault's race pace	Adam43	Formula One	26	16 Feb 2004 09:24