[WEC] Rebellion Racing

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Bcarr6

Think Toyota effectively said no 3rd car somewhere recently? Can't recall where I may have saw that

"Never been less chance of a third car" - Senior Toyota source

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by knighty

All the DSC article confirms is that Rebellion are entering WEC LMP1 with a 2 car effort.......other than that we are still speculation about chassis and engines........but I do admit it would make sense for then to stay with Oreca, for historical reasons, but I think Oreca still have a conflict of interest issue as they support Toyota, hence if I was choosing an LMP1 chassis, Oreca would be my last choice for that reason.......

honestly I think the Gibson 4.5 will be a mistake, I will be quite surprised if it can compete with the turbo motors who will have a much bigger effective capacity once turbo boost is applied......2.4L = 4.8L with 2 bar of boost......3.0L = 6.0L with 2 bar of boost......as a result the turbo motors will have a great deal more torque to accelerate out of corners with. LeMans is basically 5 huge acceleration zones.

Not speculating - it will be with Oreca

[Deleted]

The announcement stated that Rebellion would unveil its 2018/19 LMP1 contender at the Geneva motor show next March.

I bet they're gonna tell the chassis/engine/tire combo by next month or early February though? I mean surely we're not gonna see TBA-TBA-TBA written into the LM entry list in the February ACO press conference?

It's bit of a mystery why they - and the TBA Ginetta team - keep delaying it, but oh well at least they'll be there!

[TzeiTzei]

Someone should put the Cadillac DPi engine into an LMP1.

[chernaudi]

Why aren't we arguing that the ACO didn't get it right with forced induction vs naturally aspirated back in the LMP900/675 days? Audi dominated LMP900 with a turbo engine and the only other cars that consistently held a candle to them after 2002 were the ex-LMP675 Dyson Lolas, that had turbo engines.

That all being said, the Mechachrome engine will probably be the least proven, seeing as it's not run an endurance race and is based on a sprint race engine design.

[Deleted]

The NBE DTM engines in offer would surely be even more risky than the Mechacromes.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by TzeiTzei

Someone should put the Cadillac DPi engine into an LMP1.

Agree.... just image how much torque can it create without air restrictors and 100kg/h fuel flow rate.
Of course with a 6.2L V8 in the back, forget to have a car lighter than 950kg, as cadillac dpi is rumored to be, but will be worth.

[chernaudi]

And with the Mechachrome engine being single turbo, I wonder how it would fare as far as turbo lag. Audi had a single turbo on the R18 series, but that engine was a diesel and had a VTG turbo. I don't follow the F1 feeder series so I don't know how that engine fairs there, but I'd assume that it uses some form of anti-lag.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Chiana

The NBE DTM engines in offer would surely be even more risky than the Mechacromes.

Indeed.... late '90 design, lowest torque, highest revs.... the real deal

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

And with the Mechachrome engine being single turbo, I wonder how it would fare as far as turbo lag. Audi had a single turbo on the R18 series, but that engine was a diesel and had a VTG turbo. I don't follow the F1 feeder series so I don't know how that engine fairs there, but I'd assume that it uses some form of anti-lag.

ERS-H is used as antilag system too.
It's really hard to predict what kind of engile mechachrome will be.
Anyway being single turbo but with a mid size displacement, I expect a <1.75 bar range for the whole rpm range. Revving higher up to 8000rpm or more.

[chernaudi]

I wouldn't be surprised if they do go for the Judd V10. They did use the 5.5 V10 before in 2010.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by canaglia

Agree.... just image how much torque can it create without air restrictors and 100kg/h fuel flow rate.
Of course with a 6.2L V8 in the back, forget to have a car lighter than 950kg, as cadillac dpi is rumored to be, but will be worth.

The Cadillac (Dallara actually) is not 950kg because of the engine. It is because of the rules and the bop applied to the car. The WTR car was that weight but iirc, the other Cadillac's were still 930kg, again, because of the rules saying that each dpi/lmp2 has to be that weight.

[knighty]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

And with the Mechachrome engine being single turbo, I wonder how it would fare as far as turbo lag. Audi had a single turbo on the R18 series, but that engine was a diesel and had a VTG turbo. I don't follow the F1 feeder series so I don't know how that engine fairs there, but I'd assume that it uses some form of anti-lag.

A valid point, but honestly I think it will be fine, there are now many ALS options and control strategies to pick from in order to keep a turbo engine on-boost, turbo lag is virtually a thing of the past in a good turbo race engine. A fresh air valve is the main 1st choice.

One of the main factors is because the Mechachrome is a hot-V engine the length of the exhaust headers/manifold is minimal, so a very short run for the hot-gas to the turbine, so by default, the turbine will respond very quickly.

Running VGT is probably a bit too hot for such an application, but it can be done with some exotic ceramic turbine variable guide vanes, as Porsche did many years ago.

[knighty]

EI running an interesting article.......Porsche engine would make a lot of sense for Marketing reasons, as $100K watches dont sit too well together with the Nissan brand........but they would next to the Porsche brand

http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/la-...ion-en-photos/

Translated:

The Rebellion Racing took advantage of its end-of-season evening to present its 2018 program which will go through the commitment of two LMP1 whose chassis and engine remain to be officially confirmed.

Remember that the Swiss team has secured the services of two Porsche drivers, namely Neel Jani and André Lotterer. Matthias Müller, president of Volkswagen Group, sent a message of encouragement to the team, finishing with a Rebellion cap on his head. It's been a while since we hear about a Porsche engine for a private LMP1. Should we see there the beginning of any relationship with a brand of the Volkswagen Group? Answer shortly ...

The Swiss team took the opportunity to show some of its cars in a temperature at least winter, not to mention the opening of the exhibition devoted to 24 cars related to the 24 Hours of Le Mans.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by knighty

EI running an interesting article.......Porsche engine would make a lot of sense for Marketing reasons, as $100K watches dont sit too well together with the Nissan brand........but they would next to the Porsche brand

http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/la-...ion-en-photos/

Translated:

The Rebellion Racing took advantage of its end-of-season evening to present its 2018 program which will go through the commitment of two LMP1 whose chassis and engine remain to be officially confirmed.

Remember that the Swiss team has secured the services of two Porsche drivers, namely Neel Jani and André Lotterer. Matthias Müller, president of Volkswagen Group, sent a message of encouragement to the team, finishing with a Rebellion cap on his head. It's been a while since we hear about a Porsche engine for a private LMP1. Should we see there the beginning of any relationship with a brand of the Volkswagen Group? Answer shortly ...

The Swiss team took the opportunity to show some of its cars in a temperature at least winter, not to mention the opening of the exhibition devoted to 24 cars related to the 24 Hours of Le Mans.

Wow, if there's fire to go with that smoke!

[Mike E]

"We started with a six-cylinder engine in April and of course we want to finish it off."


https://www.autosport.com/wec/news/1...-on-new-engine


This is fun!

[knighty]

Yes, I cant see Rebellion simply bolting in the existing Porsche V4 and being up the front, as the other half of performance came from Porsches whacking great KERS system, I think they were 8 MJ class?.......if the motor is going in a privateer chassis without KERS, the engine will need more capacity, and dare I say more cylinders to make up the short-fall in performance due to a lack of KERS system........V6 Porsche LMP1 sounds on the money

am determined to predict something right!!!!......though I had them nailed on the Ginetta-Nissan package, but was a mile off!!!!!

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by TF110

The Cadillac (Dallara actually) is not 950kg because of the engine. It is because of the rules and the bop applied to the car. The WTR car was that weight but iirc, the other Cadillac's were still 930kg, again, because of the rules saying that each dpi/lmp2 has to be that weight.

wrong, after daytona win, Angelelli confirmed that cadillac dpi was overweighted compared to the other dpi/lmp2.
Later in season was rumored and basically confirmed that nissan dpi and mazda dpi were overweighted too.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by knighty

am determined to predict something right!!!!......though I had them nailed on the Ginetta-Nissan package, but was a mile off!!!!!

Lol mate! But it's your engine know how we respect you for, not your predictions...

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by knighty

Yes, I cant see Rebellion simply bolting in the existing Porsche V4 and being up the front, as the other half of performance came from Porsches whacking great KERS system, I think they were 8 MJ class?.......if the motor is going in a privateer chassis without KERS, the engine will need more capacity, and dare I say more cylinders to make up the short-fall in performance due to a lack of KERS system........V6 Porsche LMP1 sounds on the money

am determined to predict something right!!!!......though I had them nailed on the Ginetta-Nissan package, but was a mile off!!!!!

Agree, porsche ICE was part of a complex system including batteries, transmission, ERS-H. You can't simply take it stand-alone and put it in another car. Beyond that, just one porsche V4 should cost more than the whole 2 rebellion-oreca cars package.

[knighty]

Originally Posted by canaglia

Agree, porsche ICE was part of a complex system including batteries, transmission, ERS-H. You can't simply take it stand-alone and put it in another car. Beyond that, just one porsche V4 should cost more than the whole 2 rebellion-oreca cars package.

I dont think cost or budget is a problem for Rebellion........have you seen how much their watches sell for?....eeek!.....

https://www.chrono24.co.uk/rebellion/index.htm

.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by knighty

I dont think cost or budget is a problem for Rebellion........have you seen how much their watches sell for?....eeek!.....

https://www.chrono24.co.uk/rebellion/index.htm

.

Honestly? cheap stuff I used to see much more expensive rebellion watches

[Mike E]

Need to generate some good will to ensure your 4 car GTE Pro application is accepted?
Simply supply an engine to an LMP1 privateer!

[knighty]

you said it!...... so then avoids loss-of-face for the ACO and they have a 3rd LMP1 manufacturer, and rather a nice one at Porsche, the others being Toyota and the Nissan in the Kolles, obviously Porsche and Nissan being customer versions.........but IMSA have 4......all makes sense now.......

[Mike E]

The inevitable end result if this happened?
Rebellion-Porsche beats Toyota...