Towing Trailers and the Tacho Law

[Colin McKay]

I'll have to check next time I see the car, but the problem was the fixed swan neck type ball that came with the new Disco. I think that was binned and a complete new adjustable bracket & ball fitted.

[GORDON STREETER]

A rule of thumb was always the top of the ball 14 inches from ground level.
I have seen drop plates used the other way up but they have been made from thicker metal than the normal caravan shop jobs. I suppose you could use a couple of those sandwiched together ?
I can't see it makes much difference whether its in tension or compression ?

[GORDON STREETER]

I know in a point of law its illegal to raise the ball in the method I said but why ?
Years ago one of my customers had an Austin Maestro that got nicked one night (must have been a bit dim stealing one) A couple of days later the law phoned the owner and said they had stopped his car on the A2 towing a caravan and asked him to get it recovered, he then contacted me to get it for him.
I said but it didn't have a tow bar on it !
Anyway I went down to Dover to collect it and low and behold it had a tow ball fitted to the plastic rear bumper with two 3/8 bits of studding about 18 inches long that went through the bumper and inside the car. It was "well thought" out as it had massive washers on each end !!!!!! The cops only stopped the bloke because it didn't have any lights on the caravan otherwise it would have been in France.
You couldn't make it up
Incidentally some of the adjustable ball mounts aren't all that well made and rattle like hell.

[1200Datto27]

Colin, another cause of the instability that you might have had with your trailer behind the RV is airflow, in that typically the wake of an RV is very turbulent and this make be interacting with the trailer in a manner that is unstable.

With raising the height of the towball, Hayman Reese (essentially the largest manufacturer of tow equipment in Australia) sells these rear hitches that allow for the adjustment of the height of the towball. The also include them in their heavy duty load balancing kit.

[markjtaylor]

I am sure that we should not use this forum to promote or advertise business for either for ourselves or others. However, when I had my earlier mentioned towing problems with my 'whiplash trailer', I trawled the net and found the following company, Website Watling-towbars.co.uk. They were very pleasant to deal with and came up with a solution for me on my Dodge Ram, I would really highly reccomend them, rare that you can do this often in the 'rip-off' environmant that we live. Can not remember what it cost, but it certainly was not prohibitive.
Anybody who has suffered this problem while towing will know the anxiety this causes, also the frustration of towing long distances at low speed to avoid the problem.
I recall the first time towing the trailer with the car on board etc, 48 mph for a journey of over 100 miles, what fun!!
Another issue is tyre pressures in trailer tyres, they should be checked frequently, if the tyres are 'trailer tyres' the requisite pressure they should run at is stamped on the tyre wall.

[midgetman]

On the contrary Mark, this sort of unbiased info is *exactly* what a forum is about. We all get problems and look to others' experience to sort them out Thanks for the link.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

I know in a point of law its illegal to raise the ball in the method I said but why ?

I've never heard of this one, where does it say it's illegal?

[markjtaylor]

Try another website NTTA.co.uk. bit of an 'anorak site', but lots of info. Or maybe contact the company I mention a few threads back, Watling Towbars, they would know, from my experience dealing with them they are pleased to offer friendly advice.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

I've never heard of this one, where does it say it's illegal?

You're quite right Tim I just assumed because the towing firms say its a no no I thought it must be illegal.

[GORDON STREETER]

As for the old "tank slapper" I found it worse on the motorways going past lorries bow waves. This is extenuated when you have a race box as you get a double whammy, but in the end it doesn't worry you as it sorts itself out.
I found that when I brought a high top tow van it was a lot better for towing as the height cut the hole in the air for the box to go through and was better on speed and fuel than my similar lower Trannie.

[Al Weyman]

I once hired a wheels under from GT Towing and towed my Chevy Monza down to Lydden, I couldnt go over 40 there or back and I tried every which way but loose.

Instead of messing around with towball hieghts I tell you what I did when I bought the Blazer, I imediately stuck a pair of adjustable air springs on the back. They are great because you juat load up then adusted the pressure which adjusts the hight of the tow vehicle, best things I bought and I get no trouble. Watling Towing are up my manor and have been there for years and I have used them in the past but they couldnt help me with a bar for the Blazer so I had to search the net but found one in the end and fitted it myself which was not straight forward as I had to lower the Autogas tank to fit it.

[Chris Wilson]

What's the law on gooseneck trailers on a 5th wheel on a big pickup truck, and "mini artics"? I am told it's a grey area.

I took my Class II about 8 months ago as I had bought an 18 tonne rigid transporter. I was going to go straight into my Class 1, but work precluded. I believe there is now additional legislation in the form of a CPC (certificate of professional competence I think it stands for). Does this apply to use of Class 1 trucks for purely private, none commercial usage? I had a look around the web but info was a bit ambiguous. Thanks.

[Colin McKay]

OK, here goes...

The Driver CPC requirement came into effect in September but doesn't apply to drivers engaged purely on private business. However, same as with the O Licence and tacho laws, if you drive in connection with a commercial concern you will have to comply - this might be construed as something as simple as taking sponsorship money in return for advertising on the car or transporter, that will only be decided in court. If your business is prepping cars or you run a team on a commercial basis eg arrive & drive, the driver of your truck will need a DCPC, no doubt about it.

Basically, the requirement is to undertake 35 hours training every 5 years. This must be done in a minimum of 7 hour sessions across 5 topics eg tacho & hours rules, load security (actually you can do the same topic 5 times if you want but there are no exams, just attendance is sufficient) - the actual subjects can be chosen so they are relevant to your business but unless you are training a dozen drivers it is unlikely to be cost effective to compile your own syllabus, you'll end up tagging along on somebody else's prescribed course.

If you held a licence prior to September you effectively have until Sept 2014 to do the 35 hours. This must be with an accredited training provider who will send details of your training to the DVLA. Watch out for this scam - DCPC entitlement cards are currently being sold on the internet for £10-£50. There is no legal requirement for such a card yet and they are worthless, don't buy one.

An important point to note is that the new rules apply to anything over 3500kgs, so when you hitch your trailer to the back of your sprinter van you will need a DCPC unless you are a purely private individual doing your own thing. Writing 'Not for hire or reward' on the door won't get you off.

There is only one way to avoid this new legislation. Take up golf.

[markjtaylor]

No wonder my neighbours are pleased to see me go racing, this lot leaves our rather small cul-de-sac of just seven houses, they can park where they like.

[Chris Wilson]

Thanks for the detailed reply Colin, so as I use the truck solely for my own cars, and not connected with, nor promoting my business, I can take Class 1 lessons, hopefully eventually pass and forget CPC, and get a licence? Golf holds no interest whatsoever

Stevie Wonder and Tiger Woods are in a bar.

Tiger turns to Stevie and says, 'How's the singing career going?'

Stevie replies, 'Not too bad. How's the golf?'

Woods replies, 'Not too bad, I've had some problems with my swing, but I think I've got that right, now.'

Stevie says, 'I always find that when my swing goes wrong, I need to stop playing for a while and not think about it. Then, the next time I play, it seems to be all right.'

Tiger says, 'You play GOLF?'

Stevie says, 'Yes, I've been playing for years'.

Tiger says, 'But -- you're blind! How can you play golf if you can't see?'

Stevie Wonder replies, 'Well, I get my caddy to stand in the middle of the fairway and call to me.I listen for the sound of his voice and play the ball towards him.

Then, when I get to where the ball lands, the caddy moves to the green or farther down the fairway and again I play the ball towards his voice.'

'But, how do you putt?' asks Tiger

'Well', says Stevie, 'I get my caddy to lean down in front of the hole and call to me with his head on the ground and I just play the ball towards his voice.'

Tiger asks, 'What's your handicap?'

Stevie says, 'Well, actually -- I'm a scratch golfer.'

Woods, incredulous, says to Stevie, 'We've got to play a round sometime.'

Stevie replies, 'Well, people don't take me seriously, so I only play for money, and never play for less than $10,000 a hole. That a problem?'

Woods thinks about it and says, ' I can afford that, OK, I'm game for that. $10,000 a hole is fine with me.When would you like to play?'

Stevie says, 'Any night you like Tiger!'

[Tim Falce]

Chris, stick to the racing.

[Chris Wilson]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

Chris, stick to the racing.

It was clean... Or is that the problem?

[Tim Falce]

It was a waste of 90 seconds of my life
If your truck is an articulated vehicle you now need to take the class2 test, or whatever it's called, first before you can do the class 1, CE1?
bella is the person to ask as she has recently been through this and I think she now has a class 1 licence.

[Chris Wilson]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

It was a waste of 90 seconds of my life
If your truck is an articulated vehicle you now need to take the class2 test, or whatever it's called, first before you can do the class 1, CE1?
bella is the person to ask as she has recently been through this and I think she now has a class 1 licence.

It's a rigid, for which I passed the Class 2 test earlier this year, but I thought whilst my "terrible habits" as the instructor called them are semi in check, I'd perhaps take my Class 1 (artic) test, too. The CPC stuff was putting me off, the government's had more than enough off me this year!

[Tim Falce]

You won't need the CPC unless you want to drive for a living. The annoying thing for me is that our company does the training for this and we will be doing one day a year for the next for the next five years to get it. After that we'll have to start all over again for the next one.

[Colin McKay]

Tim, is it really a bad thing? I've been in the business for 30+ years now and when I think of the things we got away with back then I get a shiver down my spine. Personally, I think I'm lucky to be alive and although we all moan about more regulation I'm sure that colleagues no longer with us would have a different slant on things.

Sorry, morbid reflection over

Lobby your company to make the training relevant rather than just something to be endured

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Colin McKay

Tim, is it really a bad thing? I've been in the business for 30+ years now and when I think of the things we got away with back then I get a shiver down my spine. Personally, I think I'm lucky to be alive and although we all moan about more regulation I'm sure that colleagues no longer with us would have a different slant on things.

Sorry, morbid reflection over

Lobby your company to make the training relevant rather than just something to be endured

Don't get me wrong, I think any training is worthwhile. I just dread the thought of it dragging on for ever, I'd rather do a week's training now and get my qualification and then not have to bother about it for five more years. I also don't think that doing it in bits and bobs really achieves anything but I suppose it ties me to my company for that time.
I've been in the business for over 30 years and I can honestly say I have always been whiter than white and would never ever ever have thought about doing anything dodgy, even when I was driving artics to Italy each week when I was 17 and 18.

[bella]

if you passed your class 1 (c+e) test before the end of september you get grandfather rights with the initial cpc thing. you still have to do the periodical one though, but all of it is irrelevant if you only drive for private use. so yeah, tim's right!

you can tow with someone who has a c+e licence in the cab (sporting the ever-shameful l plates) but remember it also has to be on your licence counterpart as a provisional entitlement.