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Old 28 Dec 2015, 18:31 (Ref:3600584)   #2476
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Get rid of all the hardtop and let the prototypes run and DIRT
One thing at a time.

The track is in serious need of repair. It would be much quicker and more professional looking to have it repaved. That's all this consortium of concerned fans is talking about.
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Old 28 Dec 2015, 18:59 (Ref:3600589)   #2477
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Improved infrastructure and fan/team amenities would be nice at Sebring, since that's something that outside of Road Atlanta that Panoz Motorsports have tended to neglect at most of their tracks (one thing for the better that has improved at Mosport since the Ron Fellows led consortium of owners have taken over). But even then, those guys haven't tried to reinvent the wheel at Mosport. Fix what needs fixed, leave the rest alone.

Sebring's layout and track surface IMO needs left alone, especially if you want people like Audi Sport to come to Sebring to get ready for Le Mans and other IMSA teams to get ready for the coming season outside of Daytona and LM (IMSA still races on a couple of street circuits, which are just as nasty track surface-wise as Sebring is BTW).

Some things do need to be let to lie as is, for all you Bernie et Jeans out there.
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Old 28 Dec 2015, 20:04 (Ref:3600603)   #2478
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One thing at a time.

The track is in serious need of repair. It would be much quicker and more professional looking to have it repaved. That's all this consortium of concerned fans is talking about.
The track surface is a major part of the 'Sebring' mystique! Otherwise it is on it's way to being just some Airport with a track laid out on it.






L.P.
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Old 28 Dec 2015, 20:35 (Ref:3600610)   #2479
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Leave the surface. Build new garages, hospitality etc. And this may not be a popular opinion, but make it Euro/Asian/Aus style pit lane with garages next to the pit lane. Leave space for a wall like COTA if you must, but if you want world championships racing there then time to embrace the worlds way of doing things.
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Old 28 Dec 2015, 21:22 (Ref:3600612)   #2480
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No change nothing, it's obvious that the sweaty FIA businessmen sitting and dining in their ivory towers cannot bother to look at anything beyond dedicated F1 tracks even if "sacrifices" were made, so let's not demolish everything for no reason.
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Old 28 Dec 2015, 21:47 (Ref:3600615)   #2481
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Reprofile T17 into a banked right hander like the old Peraltada while we're at it too.
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Old 28 Dec 2015, 22:34 (Ref:3600621)   #2482
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Well, that's my point. The ALMS/GA merger was rushed which lead to contrived rules and bizarre events in the prototype class especially. And the same guys are in charge of IMSA's 2017 Prototype rules. Did we really expect anything different?
I would have hoped for different. By 2012, Grand Am was stable but stagnant and the American Le Mans Series was dying, they desperately needed help, both of them. The merger was rushed because it had to be, pretty much, and I would have hoped that the people involved would have known better than to simply allow all the faults to keep happening. It had to be with regards to the prototype rules, and more to the point its all in the past now.

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Of course, IMSA and the ACO/FIA faction could tell each other to pound dirt, if not for the contract that IMSA signed with the ACO to at least broadly follow their tech regs. But then again, it can be argued that contracts aren't worth the paper that they're printed on in today's world, money talks and this whole deal does show the indifference that the ACO/FIA and IMSA pretty much have for each other. But would IMSA spend the cash to buy out their contract with the ACO? I don't think so, and for the same reason why the rushed the merger and rushed the DPI regs, trying to get short term ROI whilst not considering longer term impacts.
Fair points, but if the class is falling to pieces (as I really do think it will), then what? IMSA cannot go on with a three-car top class as the ALMS did, not now. The PC situation is an equal mess. They need new prototypes across the board, but the 2017 ACO rules are a fiasco in the making, the LMP3 has no interest in North America (the test it did at Watkins Glen turned everyone off of it) and the cost/exposure problem is immense. If IMSA is gonna fix its ROI problems, it has to get the sorts of race cars that people will want to see, and that's not the 2017 P2s, period. They will find out the problems with that in short order if they go that route.

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Granted, as long as there's teams willing to buy and run prototypes in IMSA, there'll be a prototype class of some type. But at the same time, IMSA's management know that after the screw ups of 2014 especially, they better get things most of the way right out of the box or risk similar criticism and recriminations.
Those recriminations are why they are where they are now. To be honest, looking back now I'd have probably had separate P2 and DP classes just to avoid all of the BoP problems they had with these cars, but again that's in the past now.

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Of course, one can say that the ACO either don't care about what IMSA are doing or are hoping that they screw things up so bad that they're willing to give control of the series over to the ACO.
I don't think its malice towards anyone so much as it is a combination of wanting teams to race P1 cars and making sure Oreca and Onroak maintain their class dominance. The problem is that while the class dominance move has pretty much been assured by the choice of builders and the timelines involved, nobody sane is looking at P1 cars. Nissan's LMP1 effort flamed out in appalling fashion and VAG has financial problems coming out of every pore as a result of Dieselgate, and I'd bet that 2016 is the last year for one (if not both) of their two P1 teams owing to the vast financial issues involved. Ferdinand Piech has managed to take back control of Volkswagen-Audi, but half his board is made up of government interests and labor unions, and both of them are absolutely furious about Dieselgate. The future for LMPs in general is not looking particularly rosy, and while the current P2 cars could have been used as a transfer in the event of the collapse of the P1 category, the spec-engined 2017 cars can't. If they go with those rules and the bottom falls out of VAG's efforts, what will they be left with? Toyota (who may or may not stay in such a scenario, Toyota does not ever like racing themselves), two privateer P1 teams (one of which is run by an organization with a long history of screwups) and a bunch of spec cars, all on spec tires. Does the ACO really think they can move forward in such a scenario with those cars? They've been overtaken by events, namely the utter hopelessness of privateer P1, Nissan's embarrassing themselves and Dieselgate.

I'm not putting anything on IMSA in this scenario. The first half of 2014 was a mess, but they have since licked the BoP problems, largely settled the pit procedures issues, corrected their idiotic decision to not go full GT3 in 2014 and have sorted out their organizational issues. This one is on the ACO, because they made the idiotic call to go in this direction.

If they (IMSA) were dedicated to prototype racing, I'd go with what they have now for the forseeable future, including the Daytona Prototypes and the DeltaWing, and use the upgrades being set up for the FLM09s to move them into the prototype category - Oreca 03R bodywork with the low-drag Le Mans nose, traction control, better suspension and brakes and a choice of stock block Detroit V8s - Chevrolet LS3, Ford Coyote and Chrysler 6.4 Hemi - with 550+ horsepower to make them competitive with the prototype racers. Put the PC class on hold unless the LMP3 picks up in North America (and using something other the Nissan VK45 for power - maybe the Ford Ecoboost 3.5 V6?) and open the tires up for the prototype class. Any current P2 car (including the open-top Oreca and Gibson runners) would be allowed into IMSA, and I would openly call up Strakka and BR Engineering and tell them that their cars won't be paperweights if they come race in IMSA.

If IMSA is willing to go all-GT, stick what you have now until the end of 2017 and then go with Class One+big engines as the top class, GTE in the middle and GT3 at the bottom.

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If the latter happens, that just causes as many problems as solutions, especially with the GT classes (ACO's regs currently have no provision for a GT3-based class in their class structure), and if the former, maybe just like with IMSA GTP vs Group C, they'll agree to disagree and agree to pound dirt to each others regs.
They're gonna get stuck doing that at some point at this rate, and they've already had enough problems with that in dealing with the 2014 issues and GT3 cars. In life in general, it's better to be ahead of the curve than behind it, and if they want to not have all the same problems the ALMS had, they need to get ahead of it right now.
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Old 28 Dec 2015, 23:53 (Ref:3600635)   #2483
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Kind of difficult to treat GTP and Group C as all that separate when both classes were defined by a Group C car modified for GTP then used in Group C.

My impression has been that VAG intends for Porsche to never leave Le Mans again, as it is something similar to the brand as what F1 is for Ferrari.
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Old 29 Dec 2015, 00:14 (Ref:3600637)   #2484
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You're forgetting one thing with the VW Group LMP1 efforts, and that's where their funding comes from, which is different from most other car makers. The funding for Audi Sport and Porsche Motorsports comes largely--if not almost entirely--from their road car R&D divisions. If those guys didn't/don't see worthwhile ROI coming from their racing programs, those programs would be dead in the water right now most likely.

And granted, I can't see Audi and Porsche both being happy with what's going on at VAG right now with diesel gate and being effected by it by proxy due to sharing diesel engine tech with the main VW car division. In large part it's image--though Audi are still setting NA and worldwide sales records as of the last time Audi released sales notes (earlier in Dec) and Porsche's sales are extremely healthy.

And though it'll be VW Cars paying for most of the costs in terms of fines and lawsuits, Audi and Porsche (and other VW divisions that use the main VW diesel tech) will still be paying out lots of money in the short term to settle warranty claims, which is also where I expect VW to get nailed big time compared to any fines or lawsuit settlements.

And though I'm pretty sure that the Audi and Porsche LMP1 programs are safe though 2017, what'll happen after that? Audi have already cut out and set aside millions of dollars out of their 2016 product research and R&D budgets (3.7 billion vs 3.3 billion USD) as a precautionary measure in cast the stuff hits the fan. I know that it's a precautionary, just-in-case-we-need-it measure, but they and all other VW divisions are thinking diesel-gate as far as short term (1-3 year) planning, and saving that money is better safe than sorry, and if turns out they don't need to save it, they can spend it on something, I'm sure of that.

But it does seem that from who I've talked to, most people in Europe think that this is a bigger deal than what some (especially US politicians) are trying to make it out to be, and I can tell you that every car maker in the world tries to screw governments or consumers out of money or something--all businesses do. That's just the way it is. It also works both ways, companies screw governments, governments screw companies, both screw consumers and regular people, regular people and consumers screw companies and governments. Hell, this is all just one big monumental screwjob going on all over the place.

Political/economical ranting aside, I think that it might be series rules that dictate what the big three in the WEC's LMP1 class will do vs any economic challenges or political challenges. We already know, for example, that Audi will probably find it hard to get much above 6MJ with their current hybrid and diesel tech. What'll happen if, say, the proposed 10MJ class for hybrids comes into being in 2018?

There, I think that Audi may pull out completely, do something else in the WEC, or go back to running a TFSI gasoline engine of some type. That's unless they do something like run a four cylinder TDI diesel.

And with the rules change cycle, we can't be 100% certain what Porsche or Toyota might do until they confirm plans on what they'll do. The last Porsche prototype deal prior to the 919 (the RS Spyder) was basically killed off after 2008 after three seasons of racing aside from a couple of customer car programs.

Of course, that's my natural cynicism towards any rules set that'll only last a couple of years or so (IMSA for damn sure is in this boat, especially with the merger stuff and the 2017 rules changes). Much like "cost-cutting" will just lead teams to spend money that they're supposedly saving on other stuff to try and find an advantage (with private teams often being screwed because though the gap in time and performance between the "haves and have-nots" tightens, the small gap ends up being every bit as insurmountable as the larger caps before cost cuts).

All that changing rules every 3 or so years does is make people's equipment obsolete faster, makes them spend more money on updating their stuff, and means that when they get a chance to catch up, there's less time to do so, let alone enjoy any benefits.

I hope after 2017-18 we get some serious stability in sportscar racing, because 2009-present is really too much change for teams, or fans, to keep up with without getting utterly exhausted.
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Old 29 Dec 2015, 00:50 (Ref:3600640)   #2485
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Hindsight is 20/20.

Yes, they probably shouldn't have put P2 and DP together.

And both Grand am and ALMS were at fault for not adopting full GT3 cars.

Perhaps during the merger, the GX class could have been kept and all the tube frame cars from GA GT and all the Porsche GTC cars could have been stuck there in GX and allow the new full Gt3 to flourish

But is too late now, but hey this year season was definitely better then that first season, and next year we will be getting new GT machinery and the next year after that new Protoypes, so this whole sports seems to turning around little by little.
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Old 29 Dec 2015, 04:17 (Ref:3600654)   #2486
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I don't have a Facebook account so I don't know what's happening here, can somebody fill me in.
Somebody set up a joke facebook dedicated to repaving Sebring, and I've gotta say the comments are pretty entertaining. Especially when some of the commenters don't seem to be picking up on the joke.

But on a serious note, I actually could see them repaving the already paved parts at some point in the future, but never turn 17 through turn 1.
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Old 29 Dec 2015, 15:29 (Ref:3600713)   #2487
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@BrentJackson
In regards to Class One, the problem is that both the Germans and the Americans are slow to react or procrastinate in regards to integration and unification.

While the American DTM won't even happen (let alone use Class One cars in the Prototype Class), the Germans have their own set of problems as they want their own version of the Class One cars in which they couldn't implement in time, despite the fact that they shove their rulebook to the Japanese in the first place.

@Rcz
Even though it's getting better next year with the arrival of new GT cars, the Prototype class is still questionable in the long run.
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Old 29 Dec 2015, 16:17 (Ref:3600722)   #2488
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I still feel IMSA should move away from FIA/ACO's new restrained P2 platform as far away as possible: get rid off the constructors limit, open up to GT3 engines and allow more aero. On top of that allow tire competition in your premier class. And boom, there you have your prototypes and one heck of a class! Factories can spend all the money on it as they want but to guarantee sufficient privateer involvement it becomes mandatory for those factories to supply cars + support to privateers at a set maximum price. No special development tires for factory squads only either.

If US teams wanna run at LM they can lease a spec P2 - there should be enough cars around in Europe once the new P2 rule package is up and running for a year or more, most likely in 2018. By that time the 'factory P1 armada' might look bleak anyway, forcing the FIA/ACO to come up with a solid "P1 recovery plan"...
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Old 29 Dec 2015, 16:27 (Ref:3600725)   #2489
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It looks like there's a big problem coming for IMSA 2017 P class - the new P2 chassis will start being available for first testing in Jan 2017 - if all goes as planned. How then will IMSA teams get their cars, fit their bespoke manufacturer bodies and drivetrains, test, and get BOPd all in time for the start of the season - end of Jan?
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Old 29 Dec 2015, 16:44 (Ref:3600729)   #2490
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If US teams wanna run at LM they can lease a spec P2 - there should be enough cars around in Europe once the new P2 rule package is up and running for a year or more, most likely in 2018.
They'll be forced to do that in any case anyway, as long as Detroit clashes with Test Day and ACO insist that you cannot skip it for some reason.
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Old 29 Dec 2015, 16:58 (Ref:3600732)   #2491
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How then will IMSA teams get their cars, fit their bespoke manufacturer bodies and drivetrains, test, and get BOPd all in time for the start of the season - end of Jan?
No problem. Existing P2 cars will be grandfathered for a year, so anyone can buy a P2 for 2017 and then a new P2 for 2018.

ALMS 2.0: Let them eat cake!
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Old 30 Dec 2015, 03:54 (Ref:3600842)   #2492
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re: sebring once more.

how come when they pulled the hairpin back to it's current location, they added that slight left after the actual corner instead of just having it rejoin the old circuit straight?
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Old 30 Dec 2015, 08:59 (Ref:3600894)   #2493
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re: sebring once more.

how come when they pulled the hairpin back to it's current location, they added that slight left after the actual corner instead of just having it rejoin the old circuit straight?
I guess to join back up with the original track as soon as possible before the chicane. They could have made the safety pin more of a 90 degree turn and just had it join directly with the track, but I think they wanted to maintain somewhat of a hairpin design so that was the work around they came up with. Otherwise they would come out of the safety pin and just run parallel to the old track until the chicane.
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Old 30 Dec 2015, 14:34 (Ref:3600971)   #2494
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I guess to join back up with the original track as soon as possible before the chicane. They could have made the safety pin more of a 90 degree turn and just had it join directly with the track, but I think they wanted to maintain somewhat of a hairpin design so that was the work around they came up with. Otherwise they would come out of the safety pin and just run parallel to the old track until the chicane.

It certainly looks more interesting to me the way it is now though it does cut down on the over-under moves.
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Old 30 Dec 2015, 22:01 (Ref:3601072)   #2495
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A few driver notes

- Andy Pilgirm will be the 3rd/4th driver in the NAEC for the #540 Black Swan Racing Porsche 911 GT3: http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/12485...ex-24-and-naec

- Spencer Pumpelly, Corey Lewis, and Monster Sponsorship were confirmed for the full season in the #16 Change Racing Lamborghini Huracán GT3: http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/pu...change-racing/

- Matt McMurry was confirmed as the 3rd NAEC driver for the #73 Park Place Motorsports Porsche 911 GT3: http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/mc...p-for-enduros/

- Risi officially confirmed they will debut their 488 GTE at the Rolex: http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/12485...88-at-rolex-24

- Also, thanks to whoever is updating the 2016 WeatherTech SportsCar Championship wikipedia page. You have done a great job keeping it up to date and sourced: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_W...hip#GT_Daytona

Last edited by Dyson Mazda; 30 Dec 2015 at 22:11.
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Old 30 Dec 2015, 23:35 (Ref:3601093)   #2496
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Thrilled to see Andy Pilgrim land a good enduro ride with Black Swan.

Ditto also for Pumpelly after he was dropped by Park Place at the end of last year. Would be awesome to see the Huracan in full Monster livery but I'm guessing it's just a helmet deal for Lewis.
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Old 31 Dec 2015, 15:25 (Ref:3601177)   #2497
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Risk still has a (few) seat(s) to fill - Kaffer is off to Audi, factory guys Bruni and Calado are assigned to SMP (for Daytona), maybe Rigon, Vilander, Cressoni and/or Beretta to join Fisichella?
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Old 4 Jan 2016, 22:04 (Ref:3602086)   #2498
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FOX is downsizing their broadcast crew, both talent-wise and production team-wise. Varsha and Bell are out. Greg Creamer is in the booth, and only Brian Till is on pit lane.

They will also probably not even come to the track after Daytona and call the races from Charlotte like they did with F1.

I'm just hoping that the streaming won't be affected and we will still have Hindy and Co. and no commercials on the internet.

Seems strange the manufacturers are being asked to pony up a million each, mainly for TV, and the broadcasts are getting worse per IMSA's request. It will probably mean less commercials for the poor saps who have to watch it on FOX, right? Yeah, and I'm Santa Claus. It will still be the same old 7 minutes of racing, 1 minute bump, 3.5 minutes of commercials, 1 minute bump, 7 minutes of racing thing we see every race.
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Old 4 Jan 2016, 22:25 (Ref:3602089)   #2499
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And Calvin Fish?

Jamie Howe?

Varsha was so bored that it became annoying (even though I did used to enjoy his SPEED F1 comms), so it's good to have him gone, but Bell should have stayed. And the cuttings in general, just continuing nonsense...

Surely FOX will still need 3+3 (or at least 2+2) rotation crew for Le Mans + Daytona

Many said the marketing power of NASCAR was gonna make the media side bloom... yeah right, less and poorer.

Come Sebring and you'll have Greg Creamer commentating alone some 90 minute delayed highlights for FOX Sports 2 scheduled for thursday 2AM 'prime time'...

Last edited by Deleted; 4 Jan 2016 at 22:30.
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Old 4 Jan 2016, 22:32 (Ref:3602093)   #2500
Dyson Mazda
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Dyson Mazda should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDyson Mazda should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Chiana View Post
And Calvin Fish?

Jamie Howe?

Varsha was so bored that it became annoying (even though I did used to enjoy his SPEED F1 comms), so it's good to have him gone, but Bell should have stayed. And the cuttings in general, just continuing nonsense...

Surely FOX will still need 3+3 (or at least 2+2) rotation crew for Le Mans + Daytona

Many said the marketing power of NASCAR was gonna make the media side bloom... yeah right, less and poorer.

Come Sebring and you'll have Greg Creamer commentating alone some 90 minute delayed highlights for FOX Sports 2 scheduled for thursday 2AM 'prime time'...
They should just use the Radio Le Mans Crew/IMSA Radio like Fox Sports does for the WEC. IMSA is already paying them anyways.
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