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Old 24 Jun 2005, 14:10 (Ref:1339237)   #1
Gerben24
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Greatest Racing Legend

Anybody in the UK been watching that program on the World's Greatest Sporting Legend on Sky One? I haven't, but I saw a commercial on TV the other day, that this Sundays program is about the greatest racing legend, motor- and horseracing . I know public voting starts Monday but I don't know how it works. Do you vote for the worlds greatest sporting legend or do you vote for the worlds greatest racing legend???

Anyway, we can't have a horseracing legend on No.1. Therefore anybody that feels like it has to vote!!!! http://www.skyone.co.uk/sportinglegends/

You can even get your thoughts on telly http://www.skyone.co.uk/programme/pgefeature.aspx?pid=34&fid=123!
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Old 24 Jun 2005, 14:26 (Ref:1339245)   #2
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Raglanparade should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Senna
Schumacher
Fangio
Andretti
Stewart

IMHO Lauda, Prost, Clark, are not quiet the greatest.
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Old 24 Jun 2005, 14:35 (Ref:1339253)   #3
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Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
As we are talking Legends, lets have this in the Historic Forum...

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Old 24 Jun 2005, 14:50 (Ref:1339271)   #4
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312T4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Gilles Villeneuve.
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Old 24 Jun 2005, 15:01 (Ref:1339274)   #5
Raglanparade
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Not sure about Gilles... his untimely death makes his legend status an unknown quantity.
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Old 24 Jun 2005, 15:37 (Ref:1339304)   #6
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John Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Moss - my choice everytme!
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Old 24 Jun 2005, 16:39 (Ref:1339338)   #7
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paulzinho should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridpaulzinho should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Always been Senna for me!
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Old 24 Jun 2005, 16:47 (Ref:1339341)   #8
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Despite the fact he was a regular and consistent cheat ? My vote would be for 'The Boy', or maybe JYS, given their records within and outside of the car. Surely a Legend implies more than just a quick driver who won lots of races.
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Old 24 Jun 2005, 17:23 (Ref:1339362)   #9
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Nuvolari
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Old 24 Jun 2005, 18:16 (Ref:1339389)   #10
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paulzinho should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridpaulzinho should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Senna had an aura about him, he took racing to another level IMO, just look at Monaco qualifying in 1988, thats more than being a quick driver that one lots of races, thats something that creates a mystique about him. Mystique which makes him legendary.
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Old 24 Jun 2005, 22:53 (Ref:1339561)   #11
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beau1 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridbeau1 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridbeau1 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Fangio and Ascari both deverve a mension.
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Old 25 Jun 2005, 09:22 (Ref:1339725)   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonhill9884
Senna
Schumacher
Fangio
Andretti
Stewart

IMHO Lauda, Prost, Clark, are not quiet the greatest.
But d'you realise that Prost outpointed Senna both years they were together at McLaren, and that if they ran under the current scorong system Prost would have won both championships?

And then given how hard he ran Senna the next year ('90?) in the Ferrari - with what we know now, and especially compared to how Ferrari is run now, can you imagine what a shed the Ferrari must have been back then?

I think Prost gets much overlooked.

Dramatic times though, weren't they. Schumi had it easy by comparison.
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Old 26 Jun 2005, 20:10 (Ref:1340500)   #13
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gfm should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridgfm should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Toss up between
Nulovari
Fangio
Moss
(because the world was a different place back then).
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Old 27 Jun 2005, 07:26 (Ref:1340783)   #14
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From today, you can vote on:
http://www.skyone.co.uk/sportinglegends/
between
Ayrton Senna
John Surtees
That German Fella
Sir Stirling Moss
Mick Doohan
and good old Nigel

The football guys and those golf ps need to beaten!!!!!!
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Old 27 Jun 2005, 08:04 (Ref:1340815)   #15
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PeterMorley should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridPeterMorley should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I just chose the most obscure jockey, didn't want to vote for one who might be popular!

Anything that can be done to prevent the German winning another title (of any sort) and distorting history any further has to be worth voting for - sorry to any fans but, I think Cobblers incredible record says more about his rivals than his own ability.
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Old 27 Jun 2005, 20:10 (Ref:1341402)   #16
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gfm should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridgfm should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I could not disagree with the previous poster more strongly. There cannot be one rational arguement to support this view.
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Old 28 Jun 2005, 09:44 (Ref:1341820)   #17
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John Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
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Originally Posted by gfm
I could not disagree with the previous poster more strongly. There cannot be one rational arguement to support this view.
Have to agree with you there, John.
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Old 28 Jun 2005, 11:03 (Ref:1341858)   #18
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PeterMorley should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridPeterMorley should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Maybe it depends how old you are. A lot of youngster's haven't known anything other than videogame style F1, and have been brought up believeing that strategy is an important and exciting part of F1.

The very idea that modern drivers need traction control and can't afford to take their hands off the wheel to change gear simply makes you wonder how they would have got on with more power (coming in far more agressively), and less grip that they had to contend with 20 years ago.

And if that wasn't enough, some of them had team-mates who were competing on equal terms.

It was a completely different playing field before gizmo F1, they even had to overtake on the circuit rather than wait for their 'competition' to stop.

Plus cars weren't as reliable, mechanical sympathy played an important part in the success (or lack thereof) of many drivers, nowadays there is a computer replacing the sensitive right foot (an example Fangio could use less fuel (+ brakes etc) than his rivals in similar cars while beating them).

But if you want to believe figures just look at Tom Kristensen, and believe that he is a much greater endurance driver than Jacky Ickx.
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Old 28 Jun 2005, 11:28 (Ref:1341880)   #19
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Originally Posted by PeterMorley
Plus cars weren't as reliable, mechanical sympathy played an important part in the success (or lack thereof) of many drivers.
I totally agree. I don't know about the others but I know Senna led many times and was winning the race when he had mechanical failures. Especially in his Lotus years and in 1989 as well. When the program was on TV last Sunday and they showed average finishing positions of all the drivers, it make me shake my head. You just can not compare the decenium with each other. Reliability has become so much better over the years. Competition has fluctuated a lot as well. In from 1984 untill 1987 there was a Formula one field that brought 6 world champions, many were team mates during those years!

Don't get me wrong, I do think Schumacher is a pretty good driver, but he should be thankfull to the Gods for the career he has had!
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Old 28 Jun 2005, 13:36 (Ref:1341992)   #20
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That's where I struggle with this. Surely the only measure of legendary status is the number and quality of the legends told?
In football you think of Pele, Best and (for our older correspondents) Finney & Matthews. Yet their official statistics (with one exception) are pretty average. Yet in motorsport people seem fixated on numbers. What about Senna's "Tunnel Vision" in Monaco qualifying or catching Prost there in the wet (nevermind how Bellof was catching Senna even quicker), Hunt's drive at Watkins Glen '76 (whilst well over the legal limit), or Villeneuve hauling around various red s**tboxes?

No matter who your personal favourite is, can you really take seriously a shortlist that excludes Clark (surely the most naturally gifted), Fangio (the Master, so many stories) or Nuvolari (to my shame I have never properly studied his story but I've learned enough to know he was pretty special)?
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Old 28 Jun 2005, 13:46 (Ref:1342004)   #21
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Schumacher, for resetting what at the moment is considered maximum effort by a racing driver; or Mario for pop-culture status, though unfortunately his international credibility is quite low, especially in "racing mad" Britain.
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Old 28 Jun 2005, 16:08 (Ref:1342102)   #22
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Jim Clark was a great driver and a joy to watch. But, Moss and especially Nuvolari were able to beat the opposition when driving a far inferior car. All of them also drove different types of car and were successful in each.

Mansell - one of the greatest !!!

As for bikes - what about Joey Dunlop??
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Old 28 Jun 2005, 19:31 (Ref:1342273)   #23
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Hope you don't mind a Yank throwing one in.. Why does everyone overlook Graham Hill? Certainly not a better ambassa dor of the sport. Car owner/team owner when his years were on the wane, willing to give it back (or just couldn't walk away. There's a fine line there.)
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Old 28 Jun 2005, 20:25 (Ref:1342314)   #24
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Graham Hill definitly deserved a look in- he won the "triple crown" of le mans, indy 500 and monaco. If that doesn't qualify as a legend i don't know what does.

Tommi Makinen- 4 consecutive WRC titles, probably the most demanding championship of them all.

Giacomo Agostini- 9 (count 'em) FIM world titles.

And ten there's A.J. Foyt and Dale Earnhardt Sr., 7 times champions in America's top divisions.

Sure space on the shortlist is limited, and everyone on it has much to merit them, but i suppose there's a different definition of "greatest" for every one of us. The above is mine.
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Old 28 Jun 2005, 21:59 (Ref:1342393)   #25
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To be a legend is different from being the greatest. In boxing, Jack Dempsey is a legend but Gene Tunney beat him. HiRich has mentioned football's Pele, Best, Finney and matthews but forgot Beckenbauer and Puzkas(sp?)

To be a legend takes more than sheer skill and success. It's hard to put into words: a certain charisma, a feeling of 'here's someone special', a racer, call it a 'wow! factor'. And a legendary driver must have done at least one legendary thing. Although not essential, to have died at the wheel adds to the legendary status.

Camille Jetnazy
Barney Oldfield
Tazio Nuvolari (but not Achille Varzi who was possibly the better driver but doesn't qualify as a legend)
Berndt Rosemeyer
Juan Manuel Fangio
Stirling Moss (if you're British)
Mario Andretti
A J Foyt (if you're an American)
Gilles Villeneuve
Ayrton Senna da Silva
several NASCAR drivers

A few examples of top drivers but not legends
Henry Segrave
Tony Brooks
Jim Clark
Jackie Stewart
Nelson Piquet
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