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View Poll Results: Maintain the tyre war or use control tyres?
Switch to Control Tyres 22 51.16%
Maintain the 'tyre war' 15 34.88%
Wait and see how the 2005 regs effect performance 6 13.95%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 22 Dec 2004, 12:19 (Ref:1185825)   #31
shiny side up!
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shiny side up! should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Snrub
...With all the poor situations in the last while I can't understand why so many people want technolgical competition over driver competition... ...Maybe it's because you've never watched a series where there was thick competition, but I can promise you that it's MUCH more interesting.
I understand this sentiment. Who doesn't enjoy a good drivers' duel? But Formula One has always been about technology and pushing the envelope. And oh yeah, might as well have the best drivers in the world if you have the fastest cars!

Really, that isn't a joke. It is called "Formula One". 'Formula' = technical regs. 'One' = fastest, most awe-inspiring open-wheeled cars on Earth. It isn't called "Racedriver One" or "Competition One".

<----- Just wanted to use that in a post...
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Old 22 Dec 2004, 12:37 (Ref:1185837)   #32
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F1 is littered with a history teams failing and going bust - so if it happens again what is wrong? Good management will keep to budgets and spend wisely.

For the drivers salaries, I'm not just talking about the basic wage, I mean the personal sponsorship deals and all the extras.

Innovation may mean a small team is able to produce something that costs very little but gives a huge advantage. Look at the past with developments made by lotus and tyrell for example.

The reason for the huge expense in engine development is because the money is there- if it wasn't it wouldn't happen. The manufacturers being involved and owning the teams IMHO has caused this huge expense.

Having control tyres won't cut the cost either as the funds will be diverted elsewhere.
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Old 22 Dec 2004, 16:20 (Ref:1186009)   #33
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I'd always thought of tyres,brakes,clutches,fluids as being "consumable" parts of a vehicle which needn't be replaced with a part of the same brand.Sure Ferrari can win on Bridgestones but can it do it on Michelins as well,that surely would be an interesting challenge,development would continue as the teams would get to choose which make of tyre to use at each event,you could even have a tyre constructors championship or a brake constructors championship,eventually you will end up with everyone using the same consumables unless of course the competition pulls its finger out.
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Old 22 Dec 2004, 16:43 (Ref:1186022)   #34
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Originally Posted by martyn bott
[...]you could even have a tyre constructors championship or a brake constructors championship,eventually you will end up with everyone using the same consumables unless of course the competition pulls its finger out.
Yes... indeed.... so the solution to this serious problem is to just control everything, till there's noone left to pull a finger out... Strange thought, but I guess it might get the "desired-by-the-masses" effect...

On second thought, no it won't. That's precisely what communism tried (succesfully) to demonstrate, and it proved that it doesn't work. And they used no less than 50 years.
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Old 22 Dec 2004, 16:52 (Ref:1186030)   #35
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On second thought, no it won't. That's precisely what communism tried (succesfully) to demonstrate, and it proved that it doesn't work. And they used no less than 50 years.[/QUOTE]
My point was that all the consumable manufacturers would still be in competition with each other only they wouldn't have to limit themselves to any one team,there would still be competition and each team could choose what they thought to be the best products,sounds like capitalism to me.
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Old 22 Dec 2004, 16:54 (Ref:1186033)   #36
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"Control tyres" surely doesn't sond like too many options left open!
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Old 22 Dec 2004, 16:59 (Ref:1186039)   #37
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If we can't do it the "communist" way with control tyres then we should at least go the whole hog the "capitalist" way and say,you can have whichever tyres you want!

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Old 27 Dec 2004, 13:28 (Ref:1188413)   #38
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Formula one should be a one make tyre championship. I dont want to watch a tyre war I want to watch close racing. Looking ahead to the 05 season if brigdestone has the best tyre then it will be another boring season with Ferrari winning everything. I am not having a go at Ferrari here its just the way formula one works these days. When you have a tyre company molded around one team then that team will have a clear advantage over the others

Last edited by pole2pole; 27 Dec 2004 at 13:29.
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Old 27 Dec 2004, 15:39 (Ref:1188451)   #39
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No need for a control tyre,just allow all teams to use whichever tyre they want,if Ferrari or whoever want to spend millions developing that tyre only for rivals also to be able to use it then so be it,it will make all the teams think twice about spending seemingly limitless amounts of money on those round black things without hurting the competition between rival tyre companies.
Hopefully next season however we can watch the start of the races without it being a foregone conclusion,nothing gripes more than when half the commentary is taken up by tyre related stuff,at least we should see how drivers manage their tyres a little more instead of the two or three sprint races we usually get.
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Old 28 Dec 2004, 13:39 (Ref:1188817)   #40
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Originally Posted by pole2pole
Formula one should be a one make tyre championship. I dont want to watch a tyre war I want to watch close racing. Looking ahead to the 05 season if brigdestone has the best tyre then it will be another boring season with Ferrari winning everything. I am not having a go at Ferrari here its just the way formula one works these days. When you have a tyre company molded around one team then that team will have a clear advantage over the others
What exactly is wrong? I wouldn't argue that Bridgestone is molded around Ferrari, that's a fact, but I'd ask three simple questions:
1) Why aren't they molded around other ones?
2) What exactly is that clear advantage that Ferrari has over a Michelin-shod team? (as a matter of facts I lived under impression that Michelin teams have a clear advantage over Bridgestones)
3) Who points a gun at the teams' head and force them to use same tyres as Ferrari?
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Old 28 Dec 2004, 15:17 (Ref:1188870)   #41
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What exactly is wrong? I wouldn't argue that Bridgestone is molded around Ferrari, that's a fact, but I'd ask three simple questions:
1) Why aren't they molded around other ones?
2) What exactly is that clear advantage that Ferrari has over a Michelin-shod team? (as a matter of facts I lived under impression that Michelin teams have a clear advantage over Bridgestones)
3) Who points a gun at the teams' head and force them to use same tyres as Ferrari?
I think there is a couple of reasons why they are not molded around other teams. First of all they see Ferrari as there best chance of winning and they also see Ferrari as a team with a massive pile of money in which they can throw at testing testing and more testing. Like we have heard before that Ferrari have had cars testing at three different tracks on the same day. The result of this is that Ferrari/bridgestone win. Ferrari need bridgestone and bridgestone need Ferrari its a set up that works very well and its a set that know other team has. Look at BAR when they switched from bridgestone to michelin look at there increase in performance. Alot of this was down to them getting away from the the Ferrari/bridgestone set up. Apart from a few races in the second half of the 03 season I think that bridgestone has been the best tyre since 99. As far as forcing other teams to use bridgestone tyres are concerned.....Ferrari dont really care about that in fact the last thing Ferrari want is for a top team to move back to bridgestone.....which is not going to happen. As I said before I am not having a go at ferrari and no wonder Ferrari are %100 against a restriction on testing because that is going to effect the Ferrari/bridgestone set up

Last edited by pole2pole; 28 Dec 2004 at 15:18.
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Old 29 Dec 2004, 11:23 (Ref:1189302)   #42
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Ferrari are best Bridgestone's chance to win (they DO want to win, and they want to win a battle against competitors, not to be tyres-suppliers), that's extremely accurate.

The second part, is true as well: "last thing Ferrari want is for a top team to move back to Bridgestone". Elaborating the idea a bit, they're afraid (and they really are) that some teams might do better than them, so Bridgestone will not see Ferrari as their best chance to win. However that's not exactly what's happenned. BMWilly or Macmerc don't even think of challenging them. They decided to change tyre suppliers and get a plausible excuse for losing. Ferrari didn't force them to use same tyres as they are, but neither forced them to change the supplier, did they?
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