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Old 13 Jan 2005, 17:31 (Ref:1200032)   #31
Kirk
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Kirk has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
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Hopefully that holds true Kirk. I was expecting some sponsorship gains with the signing of JV. I would like to see them land some good support. They are a tidy team and do a very respectible job.

Ah yes, and I do think the car looks splendid.
Yes, I feel the same way. So does Peter, I imagine and the optimism coming from the team is infectious. Notice that large area where Red Bull once resided, just waiting for a new and large insignia.
It does look cool. I hope its performance matches its looks!!
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Old 13 Jan 2005, 18:01 (Ref:1200047)   #32
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Incredible for a Sauber!

Look at the sidepods from the front of the car.....they taper at ridiculous angles!

I am very impressed. But then, they have got a great windtunnel so perhaps we should have expected this....
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Old 13 Jan 2005, 18:26 (Ref:1200080)   #33
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Dick Spanner should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
They've also got a new Supercomputer (500 AMD Opteron processors ) for CFD modelling which is apparently 30 times more powerful than their old one.

Peter Sauber certainly seems to invest his dosh in the right places. Let's hope the driver's get the best out of what looks like a cracking package.
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Old 13 Jan 2005, 18:34 (Ref:1200085)   #34
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pirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridpirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridpirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Try Hard
Thoose sidepods are a packaging marvel by the looks of it, they are tiny!
I would be a little concerned that they might not be able to get enough cooling air in, looking at the 'pods inlets, there is almost nothing there.
Ed

I wonder if they don't get much past the barge boards anyway?
It seems like a bit of a leap of faith with the design, there doesn't appear to be a way of increasing the amount of air going in should it transpire they need to.
Just looking at the sculpturing of the tub ahead of the sidepods, and the little extra fin on the barge board, it looks like they're deliberately trying to split the airflow either above or below the inlet. I wonder if the attempt is to turn the sidepod into another sort of barge board? I dunno tbh, just guessing really. Maybe you know better why they'd do that if it is the case? (I'm sure your degree was something to do with cars -??)

Last edited by pirenzo; 13 Jan 2005 at 18:36.
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Old 13 Jan 2005, 18:44 (Ref:1200092)   #35
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The Toyota sidepods are actually appreciably smaller in height - they start lower below the cockpit opening level, rather than flush with it, and then slope somewhat more gently back than the Sauber's. The Gascoyne car does have more horizontal and less curvy streamlining to the rear wheels, but the sidepod shape beneath it is just as cut-away as the Sauber's, even if it does lack the curvaceousness.
Glen, you're absolutely right with the height point, but...
all over the years it has been clear that the general height of the side pods doesn't mean so much: remember for example how good were the Ferrari 641/2, the 1995 and 1996 Williams, the 98/99 McLarens, the Ferrari F2001,
the 1994/95 Benetton Renault... all worldchampions cars (apart the first, for a couple of points, grrr...) with remarkably high sidepods if compared to the others... Its important how they're shaped and integrated with the other parts of the car

I insist on the fact that the overall fron section of the C24 sidepods should be smaller than the TF105 ones, which are a sort of "square" in section; the gain in height could be somelike 6/8cm max. while the Sauber's gain much more transversally in the section, imho.

Also, if you watch the side view... it's clear the highest point of them is more advanced than the lower part reminding a sort of wing shape, too; which has never been seen before and could be interesting.

What do you think?
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Old 13 Jan 2005, 19:01 (Ref:1200111)   #36
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Glen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGlen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGlen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
What I think is that the overall height does matter - there may have been sucessful cars that had high-ish sidepods, but that doesn't mean that they wouldn't have been ven better if they could reduce the frontal area still further.
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Old 13 Jan 2005, 19:40 (Ref:1200146)   #37
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Points of view! ;-)

As i've not studied aerodynamics engineering, I could not say where the "truth" stays. A nice talk with you Glen, anyway.

My general impression is that if the sidepod begins very high and ends very low, there's more space toward the rear to let the air flow as desired, as if there's a sort of (reverse) depression, while with very low sidepods (I recall for example the Williams Fw 13 in 1990 or more recently the 2001 Jaguar) the resistance is surely inferior, but the air goes everywhere with less control (don't know if i'm clear here - my english language skills are not so good). Just an impression.

Anyway it'll be interesting to compare the Toyota and Sauber performances.
I bet the first one will be worst until mid season. (but it'll depends from the driver's too, as ever!)
If we lived in the same country, we could bet a pizza and a beer! ;-)

Ciao
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Old 13 Jan 2005, 21:04 (Ref:1200241)   #38
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raul_iulian has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
hey... aren't they in with Certina..?
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Old 13 Jan 2005, 21:50 (Ref:1200280)   #39
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mac should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridmac should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridmac should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Who cares how it looks? I only care how it goes.

If it's quick, it will be a beauty and we can pore over every detail and analyse why it is quick.

If it's slow, it will be like an illegitimate love child of Mother Theresa and Bill Clinton - a talking point for all the wrong reasons. Eventually everyone will just lose interest.

At the moment nobody knows.
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Old 13 Jan 2005, 21:52 (Ref:1200281)   #40
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Snrub should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSnrub should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
That's the first "sexy" F1 car in a long time! (although I think much of it on this car is the paint job) Do we know exactly how the new regs effected the front wing? Theoretically if the front wing is able to do less work, then it would produce less drag and the air flow could be "straighter" rather than bubbling up. This may be why the radiators require less open area - they're getting a direct shot of air, unlike with the previous aero regulations.

Is it just me or are the barge boards a little different than those found in the past on F1 cars?
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Old 13 Jan 2005, 22:01 (Ref:1200291)   #41
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shiny side up! should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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cant tell from the pictures but does anyone know if they've reverted to the twin keel now theres no ferrari influence?
I edited one of the pics and by adjusting contrast/etc you can see that it is a single keel. If I could figure out how to post a ing picture I would share it with you!!!

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Old 14 Jan 2005, 00:22 (Ref:1200402)   #42
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hey... aren't they in with Certina..?
Yes, but it remains to be seen whether they are to be a "major" sponsor.
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Old 14 Jan 2005, 02:01 (Ref:1200469)   #43
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Looking more at it, this is the curved sidepod taken to the extreme, I suspect the reasoning for this is the control of the airflow from under the now raised, and hence less efficient front wing. It really looks like there is a clear path for the airflow from underneath the chassis around the sides from the splitter, too the rear end. Not a new idea maybe, but a bigger evolution than anything seen before. With having non-of the inlet lower down, this should make for a much smoother flow around this section of the car, highly useful given the reduced effectivness of the rear diffuser now. All the air flow in the lower sections is really going to be very well managed to get the best efficiency, and to stop turbulent air being created/disturbing smooth air.

Regarding the bargeboards, I would guess they are having some influence on the airflow into the 'pod, for 2 reasons. One the height, they have deffiently grown in height over last years models, not that far off the tallest one's McLaren used a few years ago ('98-'01 I believe). Two, the upward sloping strake/flipup on the board itself, it's aiming directly at the 'pod inlet.

Something I have just noticed too, is that the car has gills on the top suface the pod, it's only noticeable if you zoom in on the front 3/4 veiw.

oh and here's the exhaust...



Very very diddy exit it has to be said, looks like the exhaust is either very short, or contorts in an interesting manner in the engine bay. Same thing for the '05 ferrari maybe?
Actually you can also just about see the gills in that pic too.

Oh and to help out Shiny Side Up, it's a single keel



Regards
Ed

Last edited by Try Hard; 14 Jan 2005 at 02:05.
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Old 14 Jan 2005, 02:44 (Ref:1200484)   #44
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It is one seriously beautiful machine. Here' s to hoping it is as fast as it looks.
I don't think I have ever seen a Sauber thread this long or glowing before either.
Sauber aren't getting a personality are they?
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Old 14 Jan 2005, 03:02 (Ref:1200491)   #45
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Silk Cut Jaguar should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridSilk Cut Jaguar should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Red Bull's absense has given them wings(tm).

I agree though Enemy-Ace, Sauber seem to have turned a corner in being able to get noticed instead of just being the anonymous midfield team nobody really cared about.
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