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Old 14 Jun 2011, 15:09 (Ref:2898854)   #91
Flyin Ryan
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Originally Posted by ptclaus98 View Post
They won't be going toward the less frontal area philosophy, but lightweight and low power to the extreme IS where they are going...
Then remove the weight limits on the class categories.
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Old 14 Jun 2011, 15:15 (Ref:2898856)   #92
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Motor racing has always been about innovation; Audi and turbo-diesels spring to mind, let it race.
My company manufactured turbo diesels long before Audi got the rules changed in their favor to ensure they could put out that car and every non-diesel car on the planet would be uncompetitive against it.

Motor racing is about innovation, but this car was never about innovation. It was about one car owner named Chip Ganassi trying to wrest control of a racing series so that everyone in order to compete had to buy a car from him.
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Old 14 Jun 2011, 15:20 (Ref:2898857)   #93
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Then remove the weight limits on the class categories.
And how many of you would throw a *****fit if they did that and mandated four cylinder max engines? Considering all the F1 fans are moaning about it, I bet the sportscar crowd would too.
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Old 14 Jun 2011, 15:25 (Ref:2898858)   #94
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And how many of you would throw a *****fit if they did that and mandated four cylinder max engines? Considering all the F1 fans are moaning about it, I bet the sportscar crowd would too.
I didn't say I agreed with it. I just said if they cared about having lightweight technology, remove the weight limits of the classes. Otherwise if that's their stated aim they're being hypocritical.
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Old 14 Jun 2011, 15:27 (Ref:2898859)   #95
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Hello
I hate the whole idea about this car racing at Le Mans. The ACO has rightly promoted new technologies which could be transferred to road cars. This wing car concept can't be transferred to road cars - so where is the relevance in introducing this project?
Considering the fact that it promises the same performance with the lack of aero bits which don't apply to road cars, and the fact that it will use an engine more closely related to a road car engine than most of the engines in the field, I would say that it's the closest thing to road relevance in the field, as well as the fact that it's more closely related than the other to G56 entries.
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Old 14 Jun 2011, 15:30 (Ref:2898861)   #96
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I didn't say I agreed with it. I just said if they cared about having lightweight technology, remove the weight limits of the classes. Otherwise if that's their stated aim they're being hypocritical.
The point is that they want diversity of competition and they want speed, and safety I'd imagine would be quite high on their list. If they removed the weight limits, then the teams would go to ridiculous and dangerous lengths to find speed that would have little to do with road cars.
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Old 14 Jun 2011, 15:33 (Ref:2898864)   #97
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My company manufactured turbo diesels long before Audi got the rules changed in their favor to ensure they could put out that car and every non-diesel car on the planet would be uncompetitive against it.

Motor racing is about innovation, but this car was never about innovation. It was about one car owner named Chip Ganassi trying to wrest control of a racing series so that everyone in order to compete had to buy a car from him.
Getting the rules changed so they could race turbo-diesels is fairly innovative in its own right.

I don't think Ben Bowlby would agree with you about it not being innovative.
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Old 14 Jun 2011, 15:33 (Ref:2898865)   #98
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Originally Posted by ptclaus98 View Post
Considering the fact that it promises the same performance with the lack of aero bits which don't apply to road cars, and the fact that it will use an engine more closely related to a road car engine than most of the engines in the field, I would say that it's the closest thing to road relevance in the field, as well as the fact that it's more closely related than the other to G56 entries.
When do you think I will be able to buy a production car which has that front wheelbase? "It promises the same performance with the lack of aero bits which don't apply to road car..." Come on, you're smarter than that, look at the front of the car, Bowlby himself said the only way he could cut down the drag as much as necessary was to shorten the wheelbase significantly to put it in front of the driver which has absolutely zero relevance to production cars.
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Old 14 Jun 2011, 15:34 (Ref:2898866)   #99
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Getting the rules changed so they could race turbo-diesels is fairly innovative in its own right.
Welcome to how racing politics works: "we don't prove our technologies and innovations, we change the rules to ban all the others that could possibly defeat us".

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I don't think Ben Bowlby would agree with you about it not being innovative.
He's an employee of Chip Ganassi so his opinion was bought and paid for and therefore not unbiased.
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Old 14 Jun 2011, 15:39 (Ref:2898868)   #100
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The point is that they want diversity of competition and they want speed, and safety I'd imagine would be quite high on their list. If they removed the weight limits, then the teams would go to ridiculous and dangerous lengths to find speed that would have little to do with road cars.
Prototypes were built for Le Mans just in the past decade with a 675-kg limit. The LMP1 weight limit is 900 kg. I don't believe anyone questioned the safety of the LMP675's, so they can lop off 225 kg right now if the ACO wanted.

I have a much larger issue with the DeltaWing not on its design but for the driving experience. It amazes me this car was designed to take part on street courses where the corner has a concrete wall right inside. The driver has no frontal reference point for the width of his rear wheelbase, and we see drivers getting tapped in the rear by moving over or not realizing a driver is there all the time, and it's going to be worse here (especially with Le Mans where there's no spotters).

Last edited by Flyin Ryan; 14 Jun 2011 at 15:54.
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Old 14 Jun 2011, 16:51 (Ref:2898897)   #101
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Originally Posted by Flyin Ryan View Post
Welcome to how racing politics works: "we don't prove our technologies and innovations, we change the rules to ban all the others that could possibly defeat us".

He's an employee of Chip Ganassi so his opinion was bought and paid for and therefore not unbiased.
I need no introduction to how racing politics works. I've seen so much of it over the years.

He may be an employee of Ganassi but he came up with the concept of the D-Wing; Ganassi didn't hand him a spec sheet.
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Old 14 Jun 2011, 18:12 (Ref:2898934)   #102
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Originally Posted by Flyin Ryan View Post
Prototypes were built for Le Mans just in the past decade with a 675-kg limit. The LMP1 weight limit is 900 kg. I don't believe anyone questioned the safety of the LMP675's, so they can lop off 225 kg right now if the ACO wanted..
I believe that is the progressive and better way to go. I don't know if the block of the diesels can be made light enough to get down to this weight though...
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Old 15 Jun 2011, 00:34 (Ref:2899146)   #103
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The driver has no frontal reference point for the width of his rear wheelbase, and we see drivers getting tapped in the rear by moving over or not realizing a driver is there all the time, and it's going to be worse here (especially with Le Mans where there's no spotters).
If a driver found themselves completely confounded by the lack of a fender over there, the team could mount a little wire with a dingle ball on the end where the fender would be. It would cost them a little drag but if that's what it took to keep from knocking rear corners off the car, that would be a fair trade.

The classic impact between two cars is an open wheel driver hitting a front wing of the car behind with their rear tire, maybe breaking the wing on the other car and cutting their own tire. This design would eliminate that problem by not having front wings out there at the extreme corners to get hit, so this design would actually reduce those "getting tapped in the rear" incidents.
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Old 15 Jun 2011, 00:39 (Ref:2899148)   #104
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If a driver found themselves completely confounded by the lack of a fender over there, the team could mount a little wire with a dingle ball on the end where the fender would be. It would cost them a little drag but if that's what it took to keep from knocking rear corners off the car, that would be a fair trade.

The classic impact between two cars is an open wheel driver hitting a front wing of the car behind with their rear tire, maybe breaking the wing on the other car and cutting their own tire. This design would eliminate that problem by not having front wings out there at the extreme corners to get hit, so this design would actually reduce those "getting tapped in the rear" incidents.
It also eliminates the car behind riding up over the rear tyre of the car infront and becoming airborne, something that's led to some very scary accidents with open wheel cars.
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Old 15 Jun 2011, 14:04 (Ref:2899449)   #105
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I believe that is the progressive and better way to go. I don't know if the block of the diesels can be made light enough to get down to this weight though...
You can make them a lot lighter by making an aluminum block but then that has no relevance to road car design because an aluminum block can't meet EU and EPA emissions targets.

The smallest diesel engine my company makes is a 3.3-liter and its mass is 265kg for a reference point.

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