Significant News

[Super Tourer]

Fiat has 'stunned' the financial world with a $4Bn loss, why you may ask is this significant....

Fiat are in full re-structure mode, Ferrari may be kept as a 'sporting division' with Alfa or indeed floated off as a seperate busines

Whatever happens, Ferrari F1's most loyal support, Gianni Agnelli who always guaranteed funds for Ferrari, is no more, so fiscal support from Fiat is unlikely to be as forthcoming.

Add to this General Motors, who have an option to buy Fiat, but are alleged to be back pedalling on seeing the full, horrendous financial picture.

Currently Fiat are trying to sell off other 'non-core' business interest's in order to prop up Fiat whilst a solution is reach. Blend into the mix, the Italian government who are anxious not to see Fiat fall into 'foreign' hands. On top of all this, the unions are opposing all cost cutting measure's and redundancy's proposed by Fiat to ensure their survival.

This leave's Ferrari, who, as a stand alone, low volume car maker would be worth maybe $1.5bn - therefore totally unable to justify the money they currently spend on F1 ( rumoured to be $500M per year, or equivalent of one third of their value)

This is why we won't hear a peep of objection over the new cost cutting rules, as ironically for the richest team in f1, they are very timely.....




www.grandprix.com/ns/ns08714.html

[Armco Bender]

[x_dt]

[Asp]

Just need to clarify:
1 - Fiat do not actually own Ferrari. As far as I know, it's quite complex, but they are merely shareholders or something.
2 - Enzo made the car division in the very fair place to "fund the race team"
That said, with Agnelli, Enzo's original belief carried on, without such massive funding into the F1 team. However, there is now a major belief that the bank that are a major shareholder in the team (can't remember the name at present) will want this to stop, and to have a more 'cost effective' working and financial strategy. And Shell, Vodafone a Phillip Morris, despite pouring in ££££, may not be able to match the existing funding.
I believe, therefore, that FIAT's loss is likely to have less effect than the passing of Agnelli - but, Ferrari are likely to suffer soon at any rate!

[Super Tourer]

An element of Ferrari was sold to a merchant bank last year, as a prelude to floating off the entire business, however market conditions for IPO's make this unlikely in the very immediate future.

I didn't say Ferrari was owned by Fiat, merely that they are a significant and key backer. The point about Fiat's loss is that brings the funding situation to the fore, it's mainly a paper loss with heavy write off's, a usual tactic for a company wishing to get all the bad news into the open prior to a reshuffle of the finances.

As for their funding 'partners', Marlboro face the usual ramifications of being a tobacco sponsor, they own many other non-smoking brands but have no compelling reason to sponsor Ferrari with those, as convential marketing options are more likely, and available.

Vodafone is under pressure to deliver more shareholder value, due to the massive fall in share price, this could potentially include less expenditure on expenses like F1 and sponsorship of the England cricket team...who knows....

In anycase, no sponsor could justify bridging the funding gap that is likely to emerge at Ferrari, even highly profitable companies like Shell would be mauled by shareholders if they considered it.

Simply put, for Ferrari the money tree may be dying.

[Sato san]

all teams that have the number 1 only have their spell at being top dogs for a while !.........maybe the tide is gonna turn away from Ferrari .

[Kex]

According to F1 Racing magazine (March 2003), 56% of Ferrari is owned by Ferrari SpA, 22% by Mediobanca (an Italian bank), 10% by Piero Ferrari, 10% by Commerzbank (a German bank) and 2% by Banca Poplare (an Italian bank).

[Tristan]

But the CRUCIAL thing is that Ferrari SpA is bankrolled by FIAT. If they're shedding their non-core activities, Ferrari could end up being one of them - it is likely to see some costs lost anyway.

PLUS which, with this current global economic slowdown particularly affecting the United States (Ferrari's largest importer), the market for exotic Italian sports cars isn't exactly booming at the moment. All the more reason to shead cash.

And it gets worse. The VAST majority of Ferrari's finances do not come from FIAT, rather from sponsorship. Splashing out on sponsorship in a sport in crisis in an uncertain economic environment is NOT going to help. Sure, its affecting all teams, but Ferrari may well be affected worse than others if its parent company cannot continue to finance it to the same levels.

[twig]

Apparently VolksWagen are hoping to buy out Ferrari, anyone know anything about that?

[Lee Janotta]

Yipes! That's an unholy alliance! Where would that leave Porsche?!

I mean, Bugatti and Lambo aren't really in the same market as Porsche, but Ferrari has been Porsche's #1 rival for half a century in sports car/GT racing!

[Valve Bounce]

I have always wondered of the benefits Fiat reaped from Ferrari's success or lack of same over the years. Fiat cars are mostly aimed at the bread and butter type market rather than the sophisticated sports machinery. I have always felt that If Fiat pulled out of all connections with Ferrari, it would not affect their sales one bit. I wonder if the board members of the various companies mentioned by Kex would care if Fiat saved whatever Ferrari funding; the public will always know Ferrari is [THE[/b] Italian marque, while they sit in their little Fiats in Rome's famous chaotic traffic.

[GP Racer]

This is truly bad news for me , because I have a 79 Fiat 124 I'm trying to keep running!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Valve Bounce]

Originally posted by GP Racer
This is truly bad news for me , because I have a 79 Fiat 124 I'm trying to keep running!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are indeed a very lucky person to have a Fiat 124 still in running condition, especially in Queens. Most of them have rusted away ages ago. At least you can sleep happy in the knowledge that nobody will ever want to steal your car.

[GP Racer]

Everyone here is truly in awe of my Fiat, because they havn't seen one in running condition in about 15 or 20 years!

They wouldn't dare steal it, because if it broke down(which it surely would!) who the hell would fix it!!!!

[Armco Bender]

Schumacher understands the need to cut costs
"The costs at the moment are too high"..F1Live

Pay cut coming up then Michael?

[Sato san]

Originally posted by Armco Bender
Schumacher understands the need to cut costs
"The costs at the moment are too high"..F1Live

Pay cut coming up then Michael?

or time for them to sign his little brother instead !.....

[Hugh Jarce]

It's an interesting consideration, in the long run, as to whether a low volume car maker like Ferrari (albiet big bucks cars) would be able to compete on its own with the more 'volume' car manufacturers e.g. BMW, Renault, Ford.

My guts is there is always more revenue in selling more cheaply than at few at high cost. Look at the Wallmart success, now buying up companies all over the place!

Which ever way it goes, costs cannot keep on spiralling as, at the end of the day, car companies are in it to make money not score championship points, as are the major sponsors.

As I type, I am wearing an England Rugby shirt with a telecoms sponsor on the front. I best the finance deal to put their logo there isn't a 'patch' on the equivalent F1 budget!

If the going get's too tough people WILL bail out to protect their core business.

As a Norfolk man I'd love to see Lotus back in the fray - but I think not!

[NiceGuyEddie]

No worries.

Ferrari lands sponsorship from Olympus
Ferrari has announced a three-year sponsorship deal with the Olympus company, a world leader in digital appliances and medical equipment. Established in Japan in 1919 Olympus was best known for its cameras but in recent years the surge in digital products has resulted in the company reprofiling and moving into microcassettes, binoculars, medical equipment and industrial microscopes. The firm has a history in F1 as it was a sponsor of the Lotus team in 1978 - which was the most successful season for a team in that era with the World Championship being won by Mario Andretti and of Wolf in 1979.

Ferrari is getting self-sufficient these days.
(grandprix.com)

[RWC]

I was going to say--Ferrari SHOULD be self sufficient!!
But then again..
At least till shuey retires they can trade off any more they spend on his salary by spending less on the chassis,BUT

yeah...they'll never compete with bmw/merc/etc in the engine spend department(all sponsorship being equal between teams)
A ferrari slump coming up in the years ahead?

[Maxmil]

Originally posted by GP Racer
This is truly bad news for me , because I have a 79 Fiat 124 I'm trying to keep running!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I bought a used 124 for my wife back in the 70's. After a couple of years I looked underneath one day and put it up for sale the next. Before that I bought a demonstrator 128 from the Bob Sharp Dealership in Connecticut for a station car. (Drive to the station, take train to New York to work, etc.) Now that was a great little machine. I finally gave it to my oldest son who lent it to someone who totalled it. We got an excellent settlement from the insurance company.

As for Ferrari, if I were the owner and was looking to sell the business for top dollar, the last thing I would do is cut the funding for the F1 effort. Without it, Ferrari's sales would suffer badly. Let the new owner decide.

[GP Racer]

All kidding aside, I love my spider, and I really wish FIAT would come back to the states. Bring there Alfa's with them to. Besides Ferrari and Lamborghini, which are untouchable unless your wealthy, theres little left to see of Italian car magic.

With there current financial situation so bad, theres little chance of seeing that happening.

Oh well , I'll have to keep the spider running so future generations can witness the beauty of Italian coachwork.
Such a burden!! :d

[Snrub]

Porsche trying to do what no other low volume company has been able to do, remain independant. Anyone can do it in a during a good economy, but what about when things get rough? It means temporarly pulling out of racing and selling cars like the Boxster and the unholy Cayanne. The benifit is that they get to make the 911 Turbo and special editions.

[Tristan]

Porsche is the most profitable car company in Europe. And not a lot of people know that!!

[NiceGuyEddie]

Originally posted by Snrub
Porsche trying to do what no other low volume company has been able to do, remain independant. Anyone can do it in a during a good economy, but what about when things get rough? It means temporarly pulling out of racing and selling cars like the Boxster and the unholy Cayanne. The benifit is that they get to make the 911 Turbo and special editions.

Where did you get the idea that Porsche is independant?

Rich people will always be rich. Recession or no recession. Pulling out cars like the Cayenne (the resemblance to Volkswagens Touareg is no coincidence if I might add) is a necessity when you fail to create a strong model-philosofy. Porsche is about re-inventing the 911 every 3 years. The 928 didn't make it. The 944/968 didn't make it. Boxster is doing ok, but not comparing well on built-quality once put next to the Z4 and SLK.

[golem]

Niceguy... I don't know for sure but I heard the Z4 had uncharacteristic build quality for a BMW and that it was no great driver compared to their compact 3 series, let alone M3.
Porsche does alot of joint venture work with VW I know. The 928 was one such car. I think VW sold a 4 cylinder cheapo variant but canned it because they couldn't sell it.

But the boxster isn't doing OK. It's been going gangbusters for Porsche, USA in particular. Every single last review of a boxster I've seen, I mean every damn last one, that put a boxster against another convertible had the boxster walk away a winner. In fact, the only car I've seen top a Boxster in a comparison here in Australia was the M3 against the Boxster S.

And I'm pretty sure they're not majority owned by VW. But They have a substantial shareholding or something. I'm not 100% sure on this but regardless, Porsche has done it's own thing and will continue on that way I'm sure.

I'd still rather have a nice Caterham or wait a few years for the upcoming RX-7 myself though.