VALE: Supercars

[SJA]

... and perhaps motorsport as a whole.

Yesterday I watched yet another artificial result created at the hands of a nonsensical bureaucracy. They should change the name of the series to the Virgin Australia Overly Regulated, No Longer Relevant, Rule Book Bureaucracy Championship.

I'm sure I'm not alone here in saying I've had enough. (*Waits for the 'don't let the door hit you on the way out' brigade...*)

A driver crosses a painted line, gains nothing, gets race ruined by arbitrary and non-fitting-of-the-crime penalties.

In a category within a sport that's already struggling to stay relevant, they have done an incredibly poor job of revising the rules and penalties if their aim this year was to 'let them race'; their changes have done anything but, making the category more out of touch and pushing it more and more into the realms of absurdity. Watching a telecast now comprises of more WTF moments than WOW moments.

The current cars are obsolete, no one wants a Gen2 (Group A) category. So where does that leave us? The motor vehicle itself is quickly becoming a relic, particularly in major cities. Add to this the media polished clan of drivers that say the same thing event-in and event-out (are they clones?), and accessibility of the category being reduced through means of PayTV, and it's no wonder interest in the category and motorsport as a whole seems to be dying.

When the current generation of Supercars fans dies off, there aren't going to be anywhere near as many replacement fans to take their place. Do you know why? Because unlike the days of old where the category was raw, relatable, relevant, accessible and full of colourful characters, even today it is anything but, and it will continue to go in the wrong direction - it's already a run away train at this point.

Then add to this that the "racing" these days is determined by bureaucratic ruling, and well, add it all up. What reason is there for people to give a **** about, what-ever-this-is, anymore?

Maintaining an interest in Supercars has become a very poor use of time. May as well watch something really interesting like a legal court drama series... Oh wait...

So long Virgin Australia Overly Regulated, No Longer Relevant, Rule Book Bureaucracy Championship. Don't worry, I won't let the door hit me on the way out.

[mceci1]

True supporters will always support V8s, despite what CAMS do. Hope the door hits people on their way out, and hits very hard. We cant blame V8s for CAMS making their mistakes, nothing to do with V8s.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by mceci1

We cant blame V8s for CAMS making their mistakes, nothing to do with V8s.

What mistakes did CAMS make?

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by one five five

What mistakes did CAMS make?

CAMS implemented the category rules, see my posts on this point in the other thread - this category is controlled by the cronies that are (V8) Supercars, not CAMS

[PS2244]

Originally Posted by mceci1

True supporters will always support V8s, despite what CAMS do. Hope the door hits people on their way out, and hits very hard. We cant blame V8s for CAMS making their mistakes, nothing to do with V8s.

Hit the nail on the head, but the "Vale" page heading is untrue to say the least to the person who wrote this originally there's always a tommorow fella not all races will end like that

[SJA]

Originally Posted by LD2244

Hit the nail on the head, but the "Vale" page heading is untrue to say the least to the person who wrote this originally there's always a tommorow fella not all races will end like that

Most races in the modern era have ended EXACTLY like that (destroyed by a pointless judicial ruling). Where have you been living?

[PS2244]

Originally Posted by SJA

Most races in the modern era have ended EXACTLY like that (destroyed by a pointless judicial ruling). Where have you been living?

See my comment below that SJA? It's like what's happening with the NRL currently, there is good competitive racing and good cars which is making for good entertainment but there is a issue with abysmal race management decisions. However I'd say most races haven't, but it's becoming a more common problem which is becoming a nuisance and cams is doing big damage to the public reputation of Supercars.

[mceci1]

Originally Posted by SJA

Most races in the modern era have ended EXACTLY like that (destroyed by a pointless judicial ruling). Where have you been living?

I think many of us as fans, are angry with CAMS due to inconsistency. 155 asked before what CAMS do, don't be consistant that's their issue. Be more consistant and people wouldn't be as annoyed. Would you agree.

On the note of V8s/ Supercars dying out, not really true. If anything we will see F1 die before V8s due to cost and no competition. V8s are so competitive that you can be 23rd and be half a second away. F1 20th is about 2 seconds off. (Not related to SJA comment).

[SJA]

Originally Posted by mceci1

I think many of us as fans, are angry with CAMS due to inconsistency. 155 asked before what CAMS do, don't be consistant that's their issue. Be more consistant and people wouldn't be as annoyed. Would you agree.

On the note of V8s/ Supercars dying out, not really true. If anything we will see F1 die before V8s due to cost and no competition. V8s are so competitive that you can be 23rd and be half a second away. F1 20th is about 2 seconds off. (Not related to SJA comment).

No, I wouldn't agree. Consistency is only part of the problem. The larger problem is simply over-regulation. This is meant to be racing, not forensic auditing.

The golden rule should always be: If there was no NET gain, play on! This micro-analysis of lines and other rubbish simply has to stop! But it wont.

In relation to you second comment, when I speak of V8's I speak of the engine configuration of the same name, not the series, which has not had the moniker "V8" in it for quite some time, and the days of the V8 engine remaining in the series appear to be numbered (hence dropping "V8" from the series name in the first place).

F1 and Supercars will both die, but for different reasons. F1 has more mass market and international appeal. How competitive the series' are in relation to one another is irrelevant, but yes F1 will die (not economically sustainable). Supercars will die due to waning public interest for the very reasons I've been mentioning.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by LD2244

there is good competitive racing and good cars which is making for good entertainment but there is a issue with abysmal race management decisions

Good competition? How many on-track passes for the lead have there been this year?

Originally Posted by mceci1

155 asked before what CAMS do, don't be consistant that's their issue.

Weren't they consistent in their awarding of penalties yesterday?

Originally Posted by mceci1

If anything we will see F1 die before V8s due to cost and no competition. V8s are so competitive that you can be 23rd and be half a second away. F1 20th is about 2 seconds off.

Are you kidding?

Gaps front to the rear of grid have absolutely nothing to do with the health of a category. F1 has had huge costs and on average a general lack of competition ever since the inception of the formula in 1950, yet bumbles along year after year and doesn't look like stopping any time soon.

Half a second away and in 23rd is not the result of competitive competition, but more a statement of how controlled and "spec" the current regulations are. With the amount of "control" in the current regulations, anything bigger than that would be a massive failure.

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by mceci1

True supporters will always support V8s, despite what CAMS do. Hope the door hits people on their way out, and hits very hard. We cant blame V8s for CAMS making their mistakes, nothing to do with V8s.

"True supporters"aren't synchophantic fools.Until a few years ago I used to watch every round on TV and have been to every Supercar race in NSW since the classes inception.In the last few years as I have been able to fill my motor racing TV quota with Foxtel's fantastic coverage of F1 and Moto GP I have found Supercars rubbish in comparison.I miss whole rounds-and remember I have Foxtel-and couldn't care less.If someone as hard core as me is giving up what must be happening with casual fans.
Then we come to yesterday.Outside Albert Park which I attended it was the first time this year I sat down to watch a live Supercar race.It was a farce.Dunlop supplying tyres suited for a regularity rather than a race and judicial decisions based on comments from tv commentators.
Real racing at Austin tomorrow morning and Sochi next weekend.

[SJA]

Originally Posted by mceci1

True supporters will always support V8s, despite what CAMS do. Hope the door hits people on their way out, and hits very hard. We cant blame V8s for CAMS making their mistakes, nothing to do with V8s.

What V8's? The moniker was dropped a year ago, half the V8 engines in the field will disappear over the next 2-years and be completely gone in 4. As far as road cars go, you're talking about near obsolete and inefficient tech.

[Umai Naa]

The sport seems to have lost it's way in recent times.

Especially when it comes to cleaning up after extraordinary events, and acting in the best interests of the teams and fans.

[PS2244]

I think Supercars is turning into a case of great racing, great cars but appalling race management hopefully cams pull their bloody heads in

[PS2244]

Well race mangement didn't incorrectly tamper with results today which was a positive

[mceci1]

Good competition? How many on-track passes for the lead have there been this year?

What have you been watching 155. May I say, Adelaide Scotty and SVG, battles for minors, last year Bathurst, Sandown, Gold Coast, Adelaide, Homebush. Clipsal this year was a gap of 1 ten thousands of a second in shoot out. Where else in the world of motorsport do we see that, that's right, ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE. The racing is the best it has ever been in the last few years, team mate rivalries, talent coming up, Chaz, Scotty M, SVG, Lowndes in the wet. What the hell else do you want to see. Our drivers are up their with the most elite motorsport drivers I think. Not to mention how tough the category is, look at the pedigree Simona has, not a disappointment by far, look how she is going. Another thing, Triple 8 v PRA v Penske v HSV. What else can you ask for, that is going to be an awesome battle to watch. In the last 10 years at least, we have not seen a Bathurst 1000 that has been boring. From 2005 on from what I can remember it has been known for its drama, and awesome races. 2014, track may have been damaged, but look at the end of the race, Chaz v Jamie. 2016, Tander, v Whincup v McLaughlin.

The problem is that people just don't like seeing the top teams there. V8 Supercars by far are not boring, and anyone who says they are, are some of the most delusional people. You wont see someone go flat out through the most wild corner in the country (Adelaide turn 8) on the last lap after 35 laps of being in 60 degree cabins like we did when Whincup and Courtney went at it last year.

This year, 78 laps and SVG and Scotty we still going blow for blow.

I rest my case, V8 Supercars are not boring like F1 when we always see Mercedes at the front in the recent past. NASCAR might be seen as exciting, but for most people they get excited at a crash, we get excited at hard fought racing in V8s.

[SJA]

Originally Posted by mceci1

Good competition? How many on-track passes for the lead have there been this year?

What have you been watching 155. May I say, Adelaide Scotty and SVG, battles for minors, last year Bathurst, Sandown, Gold Coast, Adelaide, Homebush. Clipsal this year was a gap of 1 ten thousands of a second in shoot out. Where else in the world of motorsport do we see that, that's right, ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE. The racing is the best it has ever been in the last few years, team mate rivalries, talent coming up, Chaz, Scotty M, SVG, Lowndes in the wet. What the hell else do you want to see. Our drivers are up their with the most elite motorsport drivers I think. Not to mention how tough the category is, look at the pedigree Simona has, not a disappointment by far, look how she is going. Another thing, Triple 8 v PRA v Penske v HSV. What else can you ask for, that is going to be an awesome battle to watch. In the last 10 years at least, we have not seen a Bathurst 1000 that has been boring. From 2005 on from what I can remember it has been known for its drama, and awesome races. 2014, track may have been damaged, but look at the end of the race, Chaz v Jamie. 2016, Tander, v Whincup v McLaughlin.

The problem is that people just don't like seeing the top teams there. V8 Supercars by far are not boring, and anyone who says they are, are some of the most delusional people. You wont see someone go flat out through the most wild corner in the country (Adelaide turn 8) on the last lap after 35 laps of being in 60 degree cabins like we did when Whincup and Courtney went at it last year.

This year, 78 laps and SVG and Scotty we still going blow for blow.

I rest my case, V8 Supercars are not boring like F1 when we always see Mercedes at the front in the recent past. NASCAR might be seen as exciting, but for most people they get excited at a crash, we get excited at hard fought racing in V8s.

No one is denying the skill level of the category, my point is: who cares?

The mullet sporting, stubbies wearing, XXXX drinking, V8 driving bogan is dying. Interest in motorsport (this category in particular) is dying. They can try to liven it up, but the cars and skill presented isn't the problem, its the relevance of the motor vehicle, motorsport in general and particularly Australian motorsport culture in a country and world that is moving on. My main point is I'm happy to now move on before my time because they've destroyed it ahead of schedule by making it very clear that 8 races out of 10, Tim Schenken decides who the winner is. I'm no longer interested in watching a sport about dry old men watching painted lines on the road and reading rule books instead of it being about racing. An event has been turned into a farce one too many times. The sport is simply a mirror of the nanny state in which we currently live.

[mceci1]

The mullet sporting, stubbies wearing, XXXX drinking, V8 driving bogan



I have to laugh at this, it really does show how stupid the person is who made the comment. Also seems to think that driving in front of another driver isn't dangerous. While I am a big fan of Chaz, I can sort of agree with the safety side, as for the static burnout call, I am on the fence, seems Victoria tracks are run by politicians looking for money.

What does that make someone though who calls people who are true fans of a sport. A dirty, wine drinking, hobit bogan. You cant wear a stubbie and not everyone drinks when we watch it. Also the mullet is gone. I find this very amusing really, some people should work for the circus

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by mceci1

I I can sort of agree with the safety side, as for the static burnout call, I am on the fence, seems Victoria tracks are run by politicians looking for money.

It digs holes in the bitumen, it isn't rocket science.

[mceci1]

Originally Posted by sizzle

It digs holes in the bitumen, it isn't rocket science.

That's why I am on the fence, it depends on the surface I think. In Queensland burnouts are allowed on some tracks, V8s I think its allowed, not sure

[SJA]

Mostert just got fined $3k for his burnout... I have nothing left to say.

[PS2244]

Originally Posted by SJA

Mostert just got fined $3k for his burnout... I have nothing left to say.

He got fined for it because he nearly cleaned up a fellow car

[SJA]

Originally Posted by LD2244

He got fined for it because he nearly cleaned up a fellow car

But he didn't. And if he did he would have been publicly shamed as bloody d***h**d! What's a fine gonna do?

And was the fine really for that? Seems to read as if it's for the burnout itself, nothing to do with Brighty...

[PS2244]

Originally Posted by SJA

But he didn't. And if he did he would have been publicly shamed as bloody d***h**d! What's a fine gonna do?

And was the fine really for that? Seems to read as if it's for the burnout itself, nothing to do with Brighty...

As one five five said the fine is setting a standard that this style of burnout is not acceptable he was told on radio to wait for cars to pass before commencing and was told don't do a static burnout as it can damage the track im fairly sure

[one five five]

Originally Posted by SJA

What's a fine gonna do?

At best, stop this ridiculous tradition of burnouts after every race?

At worst, encourage drivers to do it safely and as instructed