Changes at Pukekohe

[Tourer]

Interesting RogerH,

Given that V8SC run at 95db (which I think is the NZ limit as well) the noise issue must be less about the V8s & more about the venue in general not having a plan.

Seem to remember there being a noise meter on the back straight in earlier years so guess something may have changed.

[Mr Revhead]

Sounds to me like a compination of people moving near a track and then moaning +and politicking

[RogerH]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Interesting RogerH,

Given that V8SC run at 95db (which I think is the NZ limit as well) the noise issue must be less about the V8s & more about the venue in general not having a plan.

Seem to remember there being a noise meter on the back straight in earlier years so guess something may have changed.

The limit of 95db applies at all NZ circuits but Pukekohe is in a built up area and accordingly there is more strict monitoring.

One of the concerns at Pukekohe is that the noise will be exacerbated by the "impact absorbing" concrete barriers. Reports on road generated acoustics have shown that solid structures (especially vertical structures) in the vicinity of the noise creation can amplify the noise.

Neighbours of the track can demand that the 95db limit is adhered to.

[Tourer]

Yeah - so a plan needed then.

Plenty of examples in Oz & worldwide of managing db with concrete walls in place so should be a straightforward process.

[Goat Boy]

They could just glue egg cartons onto the concrete barriers - or carpet!

[Umai Naa]

Or bulldoze the nearby houses, and push the rubble up to the perimeter fencing of the track.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

Or bulldoze the nearby houses, and push the rubble up to the perimeter fencing of the track.

You can tell you live in Aussie!

But seriously, has anyone ever thought of noise-absorbent barriers? You could use something like the plastic astro-turf (grey coloured so as not to distract, or even printed with sponsor logos!) bolted to the face and top of the concrete barriers using TCM inserts and industrial grade carpet rods into a chase in the concrete - that way they could be replaced easily but would be held fast in place.

It might add a bit of cost but not a massive amount considering you can buy rolls of the stuff everywhere, and if it came with sponsor logos printed on you could negate that cost and then some. Plus it might not take quite as much paint off when someone hit it...

Just a thought!

[Armco Bender]

Wool is a good sound absorber.A large mob of sheep should fix the problem.

[harcey]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

You can tell you live in Aussie!

But seriously, has anyone ever thought of noise-absorbent barriers? You could use something like the plastic astro-turf (grey coloured so as not to distract, or even printed with sponsor logos!) bolted to the face and top of the concrete barriers using TCM inserts and industrial grade carpet rods into a chase in the concrete - that way they could be replaced easily but would be held fast in place.

It might add a bit of cost but not a massive amount considering you can buy rolls of the stuff everywhere, and if it came with sponsor logos printed on you could negate that cost and then some. Plus it might not take quite as much paint off when someone hit it...

Just a thought!

perhaps in the world in which we now live its time to re address the general noise levels at circuits.....
its not hard to bring the sound down(sorry to all the purist's out there..of which i am one).....
we cant continue to live in the past and moan and ***** about people moving near circuits and complaining...they do and it happens...
i would much rather enjoy motorsport at say 90DB than not at all ....

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by harcey

perhaps in the world in which we now live its time to re address the general noise levels at circuits.....
its not hard to bring the sound down(sorry to all the purist's out there..of which i am one).....
we cant continue to live in the past and moan and ***** about people moving near circuits and complaining...they do and it happens...
i would much rather enjoy motorsport at say 90DB than not at all ....

It's more likely to be 85dB if Western Springs is anything to go by, and that is not all that loud. The really stupid irony of it is that there are supposedly street-legal cars and bikes (particularly those horrible Harley Davidson things) that would well and truly exceed that, yet they are allowed on the public roads driving through residential areas at 1am making very antisocial amounts of noise. Since when does motorsport ever do that?

[Chappelli]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

It's more likely to be 85dB if Western Springs is anything to go by, and that is not all that loud. The really stupid irony of it is that there are supposedly street-legal cars and bikes (particularly those horrible Harley Davidson things) that would well and truly exceed that, yet they are allowed on the public roads driving through residential areas at 1am making very antisocial amounts of noise. Since when does motorsport ever do that?

Just reading through a few things.. looks like Western Springs is 65dB at the boundry.... Which is about as loud as a conversation.

And 65dB seems to be a fairly consistent number across a range of venues as to what is considered to be okay....

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Chappelli

Just reading through a few things.. looks like Western Springs is 65dB at the boundry.... Which is about as loud as a conversation.

And 65dB seems to be a fairly consistent number across a range of venues as to what is considered to be okay....

You sure about that? I live about 2km+ away from there as the crow flies and you can sure as hell hear Speedway when it is on! Don't think I could say that about a conversation happening over there

I was pretty sure it was 85dB although I could ask one of our planners...

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by Chappelli

And 65dB seems to be a fairly consistent number across a range of venues as to what is considered to be okay....

Which says a lot about the politically correct, dumbed down, grey, one-size-fits-all society we are having shoved down our throats by a minority of limp-wristed, tree-hugging, sandel-wearing fun police who have **** all else to do except moan..... (oh I feel better).

[Goat Boy]

Speedway gets council backing

By Elizabeth Binning Email Elizabeth
5:00 AM Friday Dec 17, 2004

Auckland City councillors last night unanimously agreed to support the speedway at Western Springs Stadium - but their vote will not necessarily ensure the popular event's future.

A motion was passed before more than 100 racing fans - and a few residents who oppose the noisy event - to ensure the speedway stays open.

But the motion stopped short of increasing the acceptable noise limit from 85 to 90 decibels, as speedway promoters had hoped.
The Environment Court last week found the event must comply with the noise limits.

Last night, frustrated fans said complying with that limit reduced the number of cars in each race to six, from the usual 20. It also left the future of the 75-year-old speedway in doubt.

But councillors agreed during the meeting that no one wanted to lose the iconic event and all parties needed to get together and resolve the problem.

Councillor Scott Milne, who moved the support motion, said generations of families, children, parents and grandchildren had enjoyed the spectacle and the council had a responsibility to do all it could to ensure that continued.

He warned that Auckland was already getting a reputation as being "fun-unfriendly, business-unfriendly and sport-unfriendly" following the lack of support for the V8 supercar race.

[Chappelli]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

You sure about that? I live about 2km+ away from there as the crow flies and you can sure as hell hear Speedway when it is on! Don't think I could say that about a conversation happening over there

I was pretty sure it was 85dB although I could ask one of our planners...

Sorry about that GB, your ind of right, I didn’t quite read far enough into the report.. the limit for Auckland is 65dB, but there’s a bit of an exception for the Springs….


Western Springs:
The noise limit imposed on the speedway by the commissioner was initially 87 dBA for 60 percent of the total races in one night and 84 dBA for the remaining 40 percent. The noise limit is being progressively reduced to 80 dBA. This noise level applies at the site boundary.
The commissioner imposed strict limits on the number of events that could occur at the site, presumably because the noise limits are much higher than that considered “acceptable”. The number of events at the speedway has been limited to 12 per year with two practice days. All events must finish before 10pm and two events must finish before 6pm. There must be at least 12 race-free days between events.

Pukekohe:
The 65 dBA contour is approximately 200 - 400 metres from the track and the 55 dBA contour is shown approximately 1000 – 1600 metres from the track.

[Umai Naa]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

You can tell you live in Aussie!

A few tracks have similar problems over here.

Unfortunately, the town planner will always have more influence than common sense.

[RogerH]

The difference between 85db and 95db is very significant.
The decibel scale is logarithmic, not linear. Essentially each increase of six decibels means the noise level has approximately doubled.

[socram]

Conversely, reducing from 95 to 80 is basically halved and the thought of going to a meeting and hearing a load of vaccuum cleaners doesn't appeal.

The essentials for a decent event are sights, sounds and smells and the addictive combination of all three is what differentiates TV viewing from live viewing.

Western Springs on a Saturday night has always been brilliant family entertainment in a way that circuit racing struggles to compete. Too often, the cars are out of sight for far too long on a circuit. We haven't been to WS for a few years but if they have reduced the fields to six, I can't see us going again.

We can often hear Western Springs way over on the North Shore, as I suspect it has a lot to do with a cumulative base effect that travels much further than higher frequency noises, which is why the doof-doof brigade are such a problem.

[MacrosNZ]

Originally Posted by RogerH

The difference between 85db and 95db is very significant.
The decibel scale is logarithmic, not linear. Essentially each increase of six decibels means the noise level has approximately doubled.

Kind of.. For an SPL increase of 10 dB, the human ear experiences double the loudness. If you have one sound source, and you add another one exactly the same, SPL goes up by 6 dB.

[RogerH]

Originally Posted by MacrosNZ

If you have one sound source, and you add another one exactly the same, SPL goes up by 6 dB.

So if you have one car going down the back straight of Pukekohe putting out 95dB and another alongside it also putting out 95dB then the cumulative output is 101dB and that would possibly create a level at the track boundary in excess of Council limits even though each car complied with the 95dB limit?

[Chappelli]

What does it mean?
If your standing across the road from the track and you can still hear the cars when as a bus drives past, it's too loud.

[MacrosNZ]

Originally Posted by RogerH

So if you have one car going down the back straight of Pukekohe putting out 95dB and another alongside it also putting out 95dB then the cumulative output is 101dB

Yep if both the single car run and the two car run is measured from the same distance. dB is a poor scale for interpreting loudness in the human ear.

[Just Do It!]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

Wool is a good sound absorber.A large mob of sheep should fix the problem.

Sheep are well and good, but the odd one can lose it's insulative properties on occasion there, Armco.

Not a good look for the TV audience, really!

[Mr Revhead]

Nice....
Just ask Carlos Sainz about sheep near fast cars

[Just Do It!]

Originally Posted by Mr Revhead

Nice....
Just ask Carlos Sainz about sheep near fast cars

Bit of a baaaaaaaa-stard!