Changes at Pukekohe

[Icarus_nz]

Originally Posted by Bill Brown

1. The rule 3.8.(1) Motorsport rule book that the clubs are required to follow is totally inadequate and in fact would not be policable without hiding behind the Judge of Fact scenario. There are other guidelines i.e. the race organisers hand book but these are not rules that can be applied. It fails in the following areas:

No meter height requirement

No meter angle requirement

No windsock requirement

No maximum wind speed requirement

No clear area requirement

All these are critical to getting accurate readings.
Because the measurement of noise has so many var
iables I believe that the only possible solution is that the sport employ the services of an Acoustic Consultant who could write the rule properly and noise test and set an individual noise level at each circuit measuring point. Then if say the level at the Manfeild measuring point was 95dba and perhaps Levels with its measuring point confines was 98dba then a car running at 95dba at Manfeild would also comply at Levels with no changes. This could only happen with expert advice and at considerable cost. Also Resource Consent requirements would have to be taken into consideration.

Welcome along Bill.
Go easy on the common sense round here tho. We don't want you to stick out like a sore thumb... ;-)

Seriously, it is great to see someone like yourself contributing.

[Southern Man]

Originally Posted by Bill Brown

1. The rule 3.8.(1) Motorsport rule book that the clubs are required to follow is totally inadequate and in fact would not be policable without hiding behind the Judge of Fact scenario. There are other guidelines i.e. the race organisers hand book but these are not rules that can be applied. It fails in the following areas:

No meter height requirement

No meter angle requirement

No windsock requirement

No maximum wind speed requirement

No clear area requirement

All these are critical to getting accurate readings.

100% correct in every respect. Where some of the issues around the countryside arise from is that the event organisers have not taken the trouble to arm themselves with the knowledge to be able to apply the points that Bill has raised

[RogerH]

Originally Posted by Bill Brown

1. The rule 3.8.(1) Motorsport rule book that the clubs are required to follow is totally inadequate and in fact would not be policable without hiding behind the Judge of Fact scenario. There are other guidelines i.e. the race organisers hand book but these are not rules that can be applied. It fails in the following areas:

No meter height requirement

No meter angle requirement

No windsock requirement

No maximum wind speed requirement

No clear area requirement

All these are critical to getting accurate readings.
Because the measurement of noise has so many var
iables I believe that the only possible solution is that the sport employ the services of an Acoustic Consultant who could write the rule properly and noise test and set an individual noise level at each circuit measuring point. Then if say the level at the Manfeild measuring point was 95dba and perhaps Levels with its measuring point confines was 98dba then a car running at 95dba at Manfeild would also comply at Levels with no changes. This could only happen with expert advice and at considerable cost. Also Resource Consent requirements would have to be taken into consideration.

A good summary Bill - I agree that any test done under the current MSNZ or Council protocol would never stand up to robust scrutiny and if cars are sent home because they fail the noise test such a ruling could be successfully challenged.
When I was doing the research for the TACCOC article (post #126) it was interesting how much the road surface contributed to a reading. If a car read, for example 95dB, up to 5dB of the reading could be from road generated noise not car generated noise. The amount of road noise was dependent of weather conditions and the type and age of the road surface.
Another reason why readings don't stand up to scrutiny.

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by HProject

Rap's been around since the '70's hasn't it? If you want to be critical of gen Y's musical tastes, at least be correct.

yeah can you please get it right next time! (loved your defending comment on_to_it)
nobodys forcing you to listen to the music today, just sayin..

Originally Posted by on_to_it

I noticed (who the ****'s Josh) but didn't comment on it. And I'm well over 20...

Oh and by the way, nice shot of Owens ST down the front straight from the infield. Good composition.

cmon we all know your a belieber

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by FAS33

nobodys forcing you to listen to the music today, just sayin..

cmon we all know your a belieber

Oh come on FAS, humour me...when were you born (and no porkies please)?

As far as rap is concerned, I'm a Marshall Mathers fan and the rest are just pretenders I'm afraid.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by RogerH

A good summary Bill - I agree that any test done under the current MSNZ or Council protocol would never stand up to robust scrutiny and if cars are sent home because they fail the noise test such a ruling could be successfully challenged.
When I was doing the research for the TACCOC article (post #126) it was interesting how much the road surface contributed to a reading. If a car read, for example 95dB, up to 5dB of the reading could be from road generated noise not car generated noise. The amount of road noise was dependent of weather conditions and the type and age of the road surface.
Another reason why readings don't stand up to scrutiny.

Very interesting the noise issue in NZ by the sound of it. Over here in Oz the CAMS regs ain't that different from MNZ by the sound of it but there are Australian Standards on the use of the equipment, which set out a range of requirements - with those in hand and complied to, the readings are more robust.

Maybe an approach along those lines is the go?

One strange thing I saw earlier in the thread is that the MNZ noise level limits son't provide for variations due to atmospheric conditions, whereas the Australian Standards do - can make a really quite significant difference, that point right there.

[Mr Revhead]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

Oh come on FAS, humour me...when were you born (and no porkies please)?

As far as rap is concerned, I'm a Marshall Mathers fan and the rest are just pretenders I'm afraid.

It's just the same as V8s vs Rotary
One sounds awesome and makes me weak at the knees. the other makes me want to stab my ears out

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by Mr Revhead

It's just the same as V8s vs Rotary
One sounds awesome and makes me weak at the knees. the other makes me want to stab my ears out

I'll take your word for that Rev!

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Mr Revhead

It's just the same as V8s vs Rotary
One sounds awesome and makes me weak at the knees. the other makes me want to stab my ears out

but dont forget one looks like a family car and one looks like a sports car.

theres good and bad in both

fuuny how the changes at this track and has turned into a engineering discussion on how we detect noise

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

Oh come on FAS, humour me...when were you born (and no porkies please)?

As far as rap is concerned, I'm a Marshall Mathers fan and the rest are just pretenders I'm afraid.

thats ok I dont even eat pork its against my religion, Im 18 but sometimes act like a 10 yr old

I dont even know who that is, besides i dont listen to that commercial crap on tv, I like da underground stuff, some guys from your country are pretty good listening. and no im not talking about Scribe lol.

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by FAS33

I dont even know who that is...

I bet you do, he's more widely known as Eminem (think about that and you'll see why)

[socram]

Originally Posted by Southern Man

As an aside, we were advised when reading one council report that their staff member had been unable to take recordings from one of the approved sites becasue of the noise made from birds who were feeding close by. For a time it was not difficult to arrange for some grain to be scattered close to the measuring points for our January meeting

Like it!

I think that most people have an inbuilt selective bias regarding noise. If it is their favourite car/band/dog/child/rooster making the noise, it is OK.

If it is someone else's favourite car/band/dog/child/rooster it is an intrusion and should be stopped.

[Icarus_nz]

Originally Posted by socram

Like it!

I think that most people have an inbuilt selective bias regarding noise. If it is their favourite car/band/dog/child/rooster making the noise, it is OK.

If it is someone else's favourite car/band/dog/child/rooster it is an intrusion and should be stopped.

Yep. Nothing worse than the sound of someone else having fun.

In Timaru, when the lawnmowers stop, the locals whip themselves into a frenzy if they can hear the distant sound of motorsport

[Southern Man]

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

In Timaru, when the lawnmowers stop, the locals whip themselves into a frenzy if they can hear the distant sound of motorsport

Fortunately most of the frenzy is from the ones who are mowing their lawns so as to be able to get a leave pass to attend the motor racing, it's the ones with the push mowers and who still use blade shears to trim the edges while wearing a floral patterned sun frock and a big floppy hat (applies to both genders) that cause the problem

[NZSTfan]

i heard from a person who lives in Tuakau that you could hear the SuperTourers from that far away! crazy but cool at the same time

[Evomike]

Originally Posted by NZSTfan

i heard from a person who lives in Tuakau that you could hear the SuperTourers from that far away! crazy but cool at the same time

Must have been a good breeze...I live on Northern side of residential Pukekohe...couldn't hear them....and you can hear the track from my place sometimes.

[Southern Man]

Originally Posted by NZSTfan

i heard from a person who lives in Tuakau that you could hear the SuperTourers from that far away! crazy but cool at the same time

Check how sound waves travel and all about frequency & pitch etc then you will start to understand stand why.

Quite often certain classes of cars are not heard say 3km from the circuit while others sound like they are in your living room. There is a reason and it is not all about wind direction.

It is a bit like a black science but as circuits have been required to live with all this and apply the requirements since about the mid to late 1980's it should not be such a surprise to everyone today.

Most of the difficulties with residents etc today is caused by the selfish few who made a concious decision to ignore the requirements and guidelines in earlier days. One reaps what they sow.

[socram]

Just be thankful the V16 BRM's aren't still running then. (Not that they ever did run for very long, if at all... Even Nick Mason has sold his to Bernie as even today, it is too difficult and expensive to run.)
It was said that you could hear that supercharged V16 on full song at Silverstone, 10 miles (16km) away, in Towcester - and many an enthusiast recognised it and rushed over to the circuit.

Hearing that V16 running was always on my bucket list and has now been ticked off.

The Waitemata VCC Chelsea Hillclimb is only yards away from our house, yet in recent years, I have had to find out the date in advance, as we can no longer rely on the noise to let us know when it is on! Must be the growing trees in the reserve that also now block our view...

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by socram

Just be thankful the V16 BRM's aren't still running then. (Not that they ever did run for very long, if at all... Even Nick Mason has sold his to Bernie as even today, it is too difficult and expensive to run.)
It was said that you could hear that supercharged V16 on full song at Silverstone, 10 miles (16km) away, in Towcester - and many an enthusiast recognised it and rushed over to the circuit.

Hearing that V16 running was always on my bucket list and has now been ticked off.

Definitely would have been able to hear it in Towcester on a cloudy day - today's F1 cars are the same - sounds like they're very nearby when the atmospheric conditions are right.

I've seen & heard the BRM running on a couple of occasions and it sounds great but not really any louder than other historic or current F1 / F3000 / Sports prototypes etc. Big difference with the BRM is the pitch - absolutely howls/screams that is more a subjective thing.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by socram

Just be thankful the V16 BRM's aren't still running then. (Not that they ever did run for very long, if at all... Even Nick Mason has sold his to Bernie as even today, it is too difficult and expensive to run.)
It was said that you could hear that supercharged V16 on full song at Silverstone, 10 miles (16km) away, in Towcester - and many an enthusiast recognised it and rushed over to the circuit.

Hearing that V16 running was always on my bucket list and has now been ticked off.

The Waitemata VCC Chelsea Hillclimb is only yards away from our house, yet in recent years, I have had to find out the date in advance, as we can no longer rely on the noise to let us know when it is on! Must be the growing trees in the reserve that also now block our view...

Tell you what, I went to the Melbourne GP back in '05 and was staying in Northcote which is some considerable distance from Albert Park, and I could hear the F1 cars easily. They were running around 140dB from memory, so loud it actually hurt if you didn't have ear plugs in...

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

I bet you do, he's more widely known as Eminem (think about that and you'll see why)

yeah not a fan of him either

Originally Posted by socram

Just be thankful the V16 BRM's aren't still running then. (Not that they ever did run for very long, if at all... Even Nick Mason has sold his to Bernie as even today, it is too difficult and expensive to run.)
It was said that you could hear that supercharged V16 on full song at Silverstone, 10 miles (16km) away, in Towcester - and many an enthusiast recognised it and rushed over to the circuit.

Hearing that V16 running was always on my bucket list and has now been ticked off.

The Waitemata VCC Chelsea Hillclimb is only yards away from our house, yet in recent years, I have had to find out the date in advance, as we can no longer rely on the noise to let us know when it is on! Must be the growing trees in the reserve that also now block our view...

wow thats a looong way away to be hearing an engine! I think it terms of loudness the top fuel dragsters will leave F1's in the dust, standing next to a dragcar will make your ears pop out. would like to hear NASCARS from a distant, apparently theyve been heard from 15 kays away, the loudest natural things to be heard on earth is probably the thunders that come out of lightning strikes.

[socram]

Strangely, at Hampton Downs, we can't hear the drag cars at Meremere, just up the road. Maybe it is because they are running towards HD rather than away?

Tonight is the opening night at Western Springs Speedway and occasionally, we can hear the cars across the water, but it is not loud.

Years ago, in the UK, we could hear the crowds at a second division soccer match, 3 miles away as the crow flies, but we were at the highest point in the county and they were down at almost sea level.

Locally, the Chelsea Primary school PA system, occasionally power boats on the upper harbour, helicopters (police and armed services), aircraft to and from Whenuapai, Harley motorbikes, noisy parties at weekends, the usual lawnmowers, water blasters, chainsaws, noisy kids, barking dogs, all shatter the peace at some point, but as long as my sleep isn't disturbed and the noise finishes before midnight, it really doesn't matter that much.

[mountainstar]

It's funny to me all of these people expect to live around thousands of other people, industry, business and places of sport and then expect to live in still silence.

One of the places I grew up my subdivision was right smack next to the boundary of a military base. Right on the other side of the boundary just a 1000 meters away, they would fire 105mm, 155mm, 203mm cannon artillery as well as rockets and mortars at the mountains. Add in air force planes bombing, helicopters, machine guns and flares that would light up my room at night, the house would shake and shudder 24 hours a day and sometimes the helicopters would only be 100 feet over the house one after another, so you would have to shout to be heard.

It's just the way it was and no one complained. I find it funny people would whine about a few days of racing they might not even be able to hear and that will bring an economic benefit to the area. I also find it funny people set up house near a race track and never expect to hear noise. I call these people, "stupid people".

[flyingduck]

Mountain star in NZ the feelings of few always out ways the happiness of many.

[RogerH]

Originally Posted by socram

The Waitemata VCC Chelsea Hillclimb is only yards away from our house, yet in recent years, I have had to find out the date in advance, as we can no longer rely on the noise to let us know when it is on! ...

Don't have to wait long Ray - Sunday 11 November. Was going to run the A40 Special now with three straight through exhaust pipes as per original but its much too loud for a built up residential area so the quieter Series 1 Lotus 7 will get a run.