General Sportscar Chat thread

[Deleted]

"Le Mans is protected as well as possible"

No it isn't you liar and you know it.

It's telling that the head of the FIA needs to make excuses for Uncle Bernard and for breaking up their own decisions

[J Jay]

It would be more accurate to say Le Mans is as protected as the FIA feels it should be, which is to say not very. Like a lot of the top-level sport, the money comes first and the tradition/heritage/etc. can take a back seat. The longer this F1 malaise drags on the more it resembles "The Emperor's New Clothes"*.

*Please accept my humblest apologies for giving you the mental image of a naked Bernie Ecclestone...

[Bob Baldwin]

" The Mental Image of a Naked Uncle Bernie " LOL !!! When did this change to a PORNO Site ??? It is time to lay down , I'm not feeling well

[chernaudi]

Sorry JJay, a little too "strange and unusual" for my tastes (see my avatar for that reference--if you don't get it, feel free to ask )

On a more serious note, that does show that money talks, even when you have an FIA president who has been extremely supportive of motorsports aside from F1. And Bernie, as CEO and co-owner of FOM, does have plenty of bucks to shuffle around when he wants to.

[J Jay]

It's Lydia Deetz (Beetlejuice), right? Now you're moving well out of my area of expertise, although I did help out with a subbing group whose founder lived nextdoor to Tim Burton's grandmother and got to know him during a time of difficulty for her. He described Tim unfavourably and with no small measure of colourful language. I know Burton wasn't as hands-on with the cartoon as with the movie, but IIRC he still produced some of the episodes.

Getting back to motorsport, everybody has their own priorities and nobody is going to argue against each entity looking out for itself. But what the FIA should do is look at the wider picture. Unless Jean wants me to believe that it's so important (and viable) to give the Baku GP every chance [not] succeeding that the next best series/race has to be underfoot then I can only see this being a result of stuffed brown envelopes.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by J Jay

*Please accept my humblest apologies for giving you the mental image of a naked Bernie Ecclestone...

Well, you know what they say about tiny guys...!

[Deleted]

I'm sure Martin Brundle will be on the "European GP" grid talking to mr Scrooge and his minions with mic, saying "Well here we are Bernie in the glorius sunshine and beautiful surroundings, and it's the absolute right decision isn't it to have this event this weekend, you know in order to manage the flow of the summer events" while tapping his shoulders. Dear uncle will reply "Yes the president and prime minister here with me just agreed that this will be the greatest event of the season, and we have just signed 25 year exclusive commitment with our partners for it to this very gap and couldn't be happier". Brundle checks his watch and continues the shoulder grap saying "And the brilliant decision not to have the Grand Prix directly colliding with the end of Le Mans, that must also be very positive for everyone". Uncle looks at him for a while and then replies "I don't know what that is, but you know the reason we moved the timing of the start was to maximise the revenue income and TV situation".

[J Jay]

That's just it though, it isn't even the best scheduling decision for the F1 calendar. It leaves the teams with four days to make the ~8900km trip from Baku to Montreal. Better get those containers loaded quickly - any delays would leave the affected team(s) with not insignificant chance of missing track time in Canada.

[Deleted]

It's perfect as long as Bernie, CVC and Azerbaijan government are satisfied, the rest is irrelevant.

[chernaudi]

Yep, that's Lydia from the cartoon. One of her famous sayings from the movie was "strange and unusual", which applies to so many things in the world of motorsports now, let alone the rest of the world..."Deadly-vous" (Lydia's main catchphrase from the cartoon) might apply on at least a metaphorical level as far as the economics and politics for racing, too.

But the issue is that, as pointed out, everyone is looking our for their bottom line. I just hope for Bernie's sake that the Baku GP doesn't crash and burn without the help of funding from the government and wealthy individuals who have a financial stake in it. But then again, I don't really give a damn about Bernie, so, there you go...

[Deleted]

The only thing I can associate with Lydia is that Winona is my favorite actor.

I guess the character is lovely gloomy though (in film, never saw cartoon)

[gert]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Maybe the so-called over spending was part of the reason why the team was so successful??

With all respect to Mr. VDS, but if he feels someone (presumable Bas Leinders) was overspending, he himself should take some (a lot) of responsibility too.
He owns the damn thing, and it he is not aware of his company's income and spendings, then something is very wrong.

At work I run the IT department, but if I exceed my allocated budgets, that will not go unnoticed (if I were to chose not to inform management/the owners/...), and certainly won't go on for several years.

I would be interested to hear Bas' story.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Chiana

It's telling that the head of the FIA needs to make excuses for Uncle Bernard and for breaking up their own decisions

The WMSC decision in 2013 (made after the mess caused by New Jersey GP cancellation) to "preserve the historic date" was only for 2014.

2013: http://www.fia.com/news/world-motor-sport-council-1

In order to preserve the historic date of the Le Mans 24 Hours, which this year celebrated its 90th edition, the date of 14/15 June 2014 has been retained to ensure that a Formula One Grand Prix is not hosted the same weekend.

In FIA International Sporting Code there might be still that vague mentioning that World Champ events should not clash but that's certainly not a definitive rule as WTCC and WRC constantly clash with F1 and WEC.

[Deleted]

I don't think it really matters either way, for me the 2012 FIA "GT1" "WORLD Championship" will forever stand as living proof and continuing reference point that regulations don't necessarily have to be regulated

[MaskedRacer]

How would you rank the best GT racing series in the western hemisphere (i.e. North America and Europe) in order? I got

1. IMSA GTLM/GTD
2. WEC GTE
3. Blancpain Endurance/Sprint Series
4. ADAC GT Masters
5. Pirelli World Challenge
6. VLN
7. British GT3
8. ELMS GTE/GTC

[Artur]

Originally Posted by Chiana

The only thing I can associate with Lydia is that Winona is my favorite actor.

I guess the character is lovely gloomy though (in film, never saw cartoon)

I watched that film back in the day but the only parts that stuck with me until today are these epic ones:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQXVHITd1N4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ic87SfqQAAM


Also, I like the digression we have and are allowed on tentenths

[Deleted]

Apparently Discovery's newest purchase Eurosport just launched new brand... identity... something... well I'm not really sure what has changed from reading this PR babble (apart from the logo) but you know...
https://m.box.com/shared_item/https%...hvq2tzmawzbrqs

Anyway, with the Legends race now stupidly being axed from LM by the ACO, the question is if Eurosport replaces the slot with the new LMP3/GT3 support. I imagine if it's right next to the warmup session, it becomes pretty attractive (more than the spec series support slot anyway).

Or possibly if Motors TV picks up MGT3CUP for full season it goes there

[Rodger Davies]

Anyone know what time the Macau GT Cup is on Saturday morning in Europe/UK?

[tux]

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

Anyone know what time the Macau GT Cup is on Saturday morning in Europe/UK?

Hey 4:15am for the qualifying race

4:55am on Sunday for the main race.

Both will be live on the stream here http://www.fiagtworldcup.com/ and BT Sport, delayed highlights on Motors TV.

[Rodger Davies]

Cheers

[Deleted]

Formula E, I can't really care rats about really now, but this all robotic new support series sounds FASCINATING for me! Might just become my favorite -series- of it's own even with (initial?) spec cars and silly gimmicks, if the AI design is independently produced as said. The possibilities are endless.
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/11/30/r...less-roborace/

Now, that may not relate to this section directly (not that those things really seem like single seaters eithers, there won't even be seats ), but... as sportscar racing to me is all about, you know, sportscars, and pretty much zero drivers, I would love to see robotic implementations in this realm too. And AI control in general is part of the automotive future as well, so it shouldn't be ignored. And if not in big fashion in sportscar racing, ala actual categories, at least somewhere. They wouldn't need to be all electric either like in the above new series, but just conventional cars with AI and algorithms.

And I think, the Garage 56 (60?) at Le Mans would be perfect place for such. Much more experimental than anything seen with the two marketing ploy Nissan vehicles, the handicapped P2, or the proposed hydrogen Green GT (though that one did have somewhat interesting premise). However, as that would require of intelligence that actually can professionally and safely cope with human interaction for prolonged periods, not just AI vs AI, some heavy research and time would be needed. After all, there is a reason modern chess computers have made the first ones not only obsolete, but changed the game completely.

Oh by the way, if Tilke ever wanted to create that Nordschleife styled venue of his own that FIA and others allegedly prevent him from doing, here is his chance to prove he's not total hack he seems to be by creating a limitless fantasy track of awesomeness. Robots need no safety. Only budget and land leasing would be the limit. But then they could even just run on closed public country roads.

[Akrapovic]

I know I'll sound like Scrooge here, but I can think of nothing more utterly mind-numbingly boring than AI Driving electric cars. Formula E is already completely devoid of any personality, so it seems they're going the whole way and removing humans from the equation completely.

It's all very impressive and extremely well engineered, and AI cars on the road is a great thing for lots of reasons. But a competition? Can't wait for replacing humans in the Olympics with machines too. Who needs Bolt running the 100m in 9.5 seconds when the Ultra-Run-A-Tron-9000 can do it in 9.0.

Anyway, this already exists if we want to make it a spectator sport. Park your car in any racing game and watch the AI. You'll have the same experience, since you're at home watching the AI control something electronic on your screen.

[YorkshireLad]

Just on break with a mate/work colleague, he's got an outlander phev.

Total power release is 120kw and battery capacity is 12kwh. We were wondering where this would tally up in the MJ category of the WECseries.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I know I'll sound like Scrooge here, but I can think of nothing more utterly mind-numbingly boring than AI Driving electric cars. Formula E is already completely devoid of any personality, so it seems they're going the whole way and removing humans from the equation completely.

It's all very impressive and extremely well engineered, and AI cars on the road is a great thing for lots of reasons. But a competition? Can't wait for replacing humans in the Olympics with machines too. Who needs Bolt running the 100m in 9.5 seconds when the Ultra-Run-A-Tron-9000 can do it in 9.0.

Anyway, this already exists if we want to make it a spectator sport. Park your car in any racing game and watch the AI. You'll have the same experience, since you're at home watching the AI control something electronic on your screen.

Watching virtual computer vs computer is boring, but I would say in physical AI interacting form, particularly when they function independently from each other, it becomes immensely more interesting.

The human element is gone yes, but only from the drivers seat. It still needs to be prepared, managed and supported by people (Skynet isn't up to the task yet ). There are teams still. If you don't particularly care about drivers, but do care about teams and their vehicles - like me - it's no loss of impact really. And if along the line you get non spec cars racing each other, you know manufacturer vs manufacturer, there's that too.

We're not talking about machines going on rails, or doing always predictable things, or even completely mistake free entities. The AIs will function to reach the best mathematical chances they've been programmed to. Programmed to, by humans and some will have better programmers than others...

Of course, the slave cars itself may still fail their robotic overminds too with reliability and durability etc

Without safety aspect (other than (potential) spectator fencing and placing)), we can not only have unlimited fantasy tracks worthy of orgasm, but also pretty much unlimited potential speeds and power inputs as well. Sky is the limit.

You've seen the robot hotels of Japan?

[Deleted]

Just to add, I think this Roborace is extremely far away from the concepts I've been describing, but as first (more or less) serious initial starting point, it sounds good. If it indeed materializes, I'll be following with huge interest. Even if the cars look lame and sound like silenced vaccuum cleaners, it's the idea that has intrigued. And particularly where it develoos in coming years. My only fear is that they'll introduce some stupid gimmick crap to make it more "entertaining"... roboboost, robodrs, roboreverse, robocheesetires, whatever. And that'll distract attention