Where are all the Super Coupe's

[216gti]

With the debate raging about saloon car regs on here, the number of ex Super Coupe Cup cars still around would provide a ready made class/ challenge/ sub.series call it what you will.
On the forum recently we have Colin Stubbs, Matt Speakman, Mark Bailey, myself and probably lots of others that I wouldn't know of.
From what I've heard it was a great championship to be involved with so whether it's a commitment to run in pre '93 or even several of the open racedays, I'm sure we'd have a ball.
I've always run on slicks and wouldn't know a 1a or 1b tyre if it ran over my foot but from a cost perspective they do seem the way to go.
So who's got a Super Coupe???

[nyssa7]

A few gravitated to the LMA Euro Saloons, some are now regulars, some just come out at their local tracks

The thing is, the Super Coupe series demised despite having a sponsor, just to low numbers, not sufficient to continue? Why would things now have changed?

[R59]

Some of the Vectra's and the Vento's went to Britcar/Production S1, the Ronnie 5's probably all dissolved (like the TS's before them!), dunno where the Polo G40's went, who cares where the Proton's went, and the CRX's are spread far and wide in many different forms.

Since EuroSaloons was born of AutoItalia, Road Saloons, and SuperCoupe Cup all thrown into one hat, you'd think they'd all still be there.

[Joyce George]

Judging by he field of cars in the CSCC tin tops at Donington last week, a lot of them have ended up there. A couple of Protons, Alfas, CRX etc. Shame, it was a good series,

[216gti]

Just wondering, the last LMA round that I went to only had a Tomcat, 2 Protons and a 216 that seemed to be ex Super Coupe and I've not seen the Tin Tops yet.
Hi nyssa7, I don't think things have really changed, It's just that with Matt Speakman and Mark Bailey seemingly leaving the series due to increasing entry fees and people buying the front of the grid (and I'm sure they wern't alone), the type of cost control (tyres) imposed by a series such as the pre '93s would make it ideal. With Colin Stubbs having mentioned these as well it didn't seem a bad idea to try and highlight the fact that 4 people with the same class cars have thought about running together and a few more would make it quite interesting. I don't mind where I race, but I'd love to be out with some other 216's, CRX's, Tomcats etc. whether it be in LMA's, Pre '93s or Tin Tops and I'm sure plenty of people with old Super Coupe's feel the same.

[COLIN STUBBS]

its such a minefield of different regulations for each championship isnt it. i have raced in toyos, lma and tintops.cant make my mind up what to do... rachael finney races a gti in northern saloons but its way off the original regs with plastic panels and perspex,but it goes well. theres a couple of tomcats there too. also 2 tomcats in toyo and lma so there spread round all over the place. also heard about a 216gti converted to a 214sei for stock hatch.mines way too hard for road tyres but iv really enjoyed toyo-a really nice bunch of guys from what iv seen,has a 1600cc class but it lacks numbers.tintops are well run and last season put some good cheap races on,also has a 1600 cpass but unless you share a car its pretty expensive,although with no over 2litre cars you dont get lapped so often[took me ages cleaning the oil off it last year from a quick mk2 escort rally car though!].speed differentials in lma are a worry with the touring cars.but if they gained enough entries im sure the races would be split. no 1600 class though.......pre 93 should be good if enough cars of the correct sort of age are running,but no cadwell races for ctrcc this year so not good for me!

[216gti]

The pre 93's do look a good bet, what sort of 1a or 1b tyres have you run on the 216, I've only ever tried used Michelin slicks on mine and as you said they do really hang on but it would be interesting to try others as a comparison, new ones would be a real novelty though!

[Al Weyman]

Any from 1a or 1b, regs here http://www.classictouringcars.com/pa....1%20Draft.pdf

I am using Kumhos on my car at the moment and they are pretty sticky and available in different compounds to suit your wallet! I have the mediums but will go for the hard next time as my wallet is not that big!

[avro]

216GTI, you mention the words 'buying the front of the grid', what are you talking about, LMA ?.

If you are I strongly disagree, our Honda cost us less to buy and run than a lot of the cars running in our own class and the other classes.

[Matt Speakman]

Originally Posted by 216gti

It's just that with Matt Speakman and Mark Bailey seemingly leaving the series due to increasing entry fees and people buying the front of the grid (and I'm sure they wern't alone.

Just to clarify, I left the series to join Clio Cup - if anyone saw Oulton Park last year & remembers a green car going off twice that was me! Other drivers went into Britcar/Seat Cupra Cup/Clio Cup/MG Trophy - perhaps people wanted a fresh challenge?

Most Rover 216Gti are in Wales? Most Honda CRX in 750mc or sat idle? Tomcats are in regional stuff/LMA? Ventos went to VW Cup/regional stuff, vectras cost the earth to run (Gearbox), btc production cars went to britcar & most Protons went are sat idle....though a couple are in tin-tops. Basically, there's a lot of cars doing nothing!

Seriously though, Super Coupe race entry fees weren't increasing anymore than any other BRSCC championship, Championship entry was only £260 (with tv), & people weren't buying the front of the grid...there were simply drivers with different race pace! Tony Liddell's departure as Co-ordinator was a great shame as the chap that took over had it lumped on him rather late in 2004. It was Tony (& Mavis') baby, I guess when they retired the 'mum & dad' of us all had gone!!

I see Pre-93 doesn't run on slicks...hmm.....!!!!! What do Tin-tops run on?

[COLIN STUBBS]

hi 216 im getting confused which thread im on. have a look on the other saloon series one!! ps whats that word new? never heard of that one!!!!

[COLIN STUBBS]

and one for sale on ebay at the mo!

[216gti]

I'm trying to get a quote from a different thread into the reply for this one and can't quite work it out. Done it wrong twice now!

[216gti]

Thanks for that Al. Avro and Matt, reply is on the other thread but along the lines of, wasn't having a go at LMA's or anyone else and sorry if I misrepresented what you had said Matt, but thought you had agreed with Mark Bailey when he said that his reasons for leaving were increasing fee's and the fact that with tyres at £500 per set some people were using 2 sets per weekend, which formed the basis of the "buying the front of the grid " comment. Didn't mean to upset anyone, just didn't explain myself properly.
Only wanted some more 216's to play with!!
What's for sale on E-bay, Colin?

[Matt Speakman]

Originally Posted by 216gti

Thanks for that Al. Avro and Matt, reply is on the other thread but along the lines of, wasn't having a go at LMA's or anyone else and sorry if I misrepresented what you had said Matt, but thought you had agreed with Mark Bailey when he said that his reasons for leaving were increasing fee's and the fact that with tyres at £500 per set some people were using 2 sets per weekend, which formed the basis of the "buying the front of the grid " comment. Didn't mean to upset anyone, just didn't explain myself properly.
Only wanted some more 216's to play with!!
What's for sale on E-bay, Colin?

Don't remember anyone buying 2 sets per weekend - not even the Byfords with their Protons! I, Dean Clements, & Marting Young (all Gti runners) were buying 2 new slicks per meeting - £270ish if my memory's correct. Perhaps there's been a few too many chinese whispers as to how much money was being spent!? If people were buying 2 sets per meeting that's instantly £11k spent before everything else...equating to an overall budget of nearly £25k!!! To be fair, we did spend £14k in 2004 - which includes hotels (hate camping!), food, getting to & from circuits, entry fees, & all bits associated with running the car, where as in in 2003 we only spent £5k. Compare that to last year with the Clio - 3 toca meetings in total - £15k...that's right, £5k per meeting to run a Clio - OUCH!

The Rovers on ebay are road cars.

Now, moving on, only ever run slicks, what's a 1a/1b tyre?

[Mark Bailey]

Apologies I seem to have started something here. When I started in the Supercoupes in 1999 I paid circa £175 for a double header, by the time I left in 2004 you could add another £100 to that. Yes, that did reflect other championship costs but is a reasonable amount to spend. I'm therefore much more in favour for reduced price races and other clubs. Purely due to my budget.

In terms of slicks I may be wrong in the number used, maybe this seemed more with people rotating tyres that they had in 'stock'. I only had 2 good fronts, 2 worn fronts on the rear and 2 to get me out of trouble. Fronts lasted me 6 races so if some guys were changing each race than that is a difference. 12 races = 24 new fronts = £3k. I'm not having a dig but that just shows the variety in the field.

I agree Matt when Tony and Mavis left the energy went with them.

Tin tops I think have free tyres. A friend of mine Robert Dyball with a CRX is running Yoko A048R's on his. I think Simon Roes and Stuart Levers crx's are in the 750mc hot hatch, One of the Hall's cars also turned up there. I also saw Steve Alderton's CRX the other day in Suffolk so he may have been sold.

[216gti]

Hi Mark, it was only me not paying attention for a change, although Matt was probably right with the chinese whispers theory as I've heard some horrendous stories about the costs of running competitively in the series.
Doesn't compare with TOCA though, thats scary Matt!
A mate of mine is doing Clios next year, hope he's got really, really deep pockets!
The Tin Tops look good but a bit pricey if you don't fancy sharing a car but then again, no such thing as a free lunch.
Most of the series seem to run on these List 1a/1b tyres, I think I'll try to find some used ones and give them a bash on a trackday, Colin seems to go well on them so it's worth a try.

[Mark Bailey]

That is an ex Stafford Land Rover Super Coupe cup rover GTI on ebay, under item number 4647700319. Light blue in colour and I do recall it.

List 1a 1b relates to the list of eligble tyres in the back of the RAC blue book. I haven't got it to hand but the lists state all eligble tyres for use in motorsport. For instance the yokohama I use I similar to the Lotus Exige road car tyres and come under 1b. Bascially you will find something on their to suit what ever size rims you need or your budget.

The MSV race at Cadwell that Colin and I entered was a good example or List 1a or 1b tyres. I think Colin used a mixture of slicks and wets whereas I used yokohama's that I used in the 750MC. It basically opens up the possibilities for racers to race without buying series specific tyres or not being able to find series specific tyres to fit their car type.

I'm sure a more technical explanation will follow....

[Al Weyman]

I believe as well as current List 1a/b past lists can be used as well because manufacturers will not submit tyres every year only as and when they need to.

Did you say you were coming to The Rock on the 25th Mark?

[COLIN STUBBS]

i bought a load of dunlop formula r tyres that look similar to yours mark off ebay from a guy who raced a mini cooper challenge car. sent the lads to my house to get em at cadwell when it started to dry up before the second race.id never run them before and after a couple of laps they were nice and predictable,with the car set as hard as hell/no front bar.[ref rachael].

[Mark Bailey]

Hi Al, thanks for the welcome and yes I'm all confirmed for the Rock. Looking forward to it, last time I raced against 'MG Racer' he landed on his roof at Silverstone! I'm sure he'll be glad I've mentioned this again!

Just have to finish replacing all my roll cage bolts with slightly longer ones following comments from a Scrutineer. They've been like that since the car was built in 88 but apparently they don't go far enough through the nylock's. Oh well, all the name of saftey.

Colin, I'm a big fan of those type of tyres for that very reason. Looking at the times you knocked a further 4 seconds off on those and I got within 2 tenths of your time as it dried. Just a shame I spend so long splashing around at the back for the first 10 minutes! I assume you are going to run those.

[MG Racer]

Right thats enough, yes I did go onto my roof but it was someone elses fault and not mine! Where have you heard that before?

Would anyone like a slightly shop soiled MG?

[Al Weyman]

See you there Mark, its looking good.

Ref the rollcage bolts, I have never heard Nylocs being a prerequiste before, if not can you not just change them to normal nuts then presumably they will see the bolt end protruding through the nut as required, what was the formula, 1/3rd the bolt diameter should be protruding or something? The buggers never come loose anyhow once they have a nice bit of rust in them.

[Mark Bailey]

It was the open MSV day at Cadwell where he picked me up on the bolts, cable ties on the roll cage padding (despite a full face helmet) and a rubber fire seal on the bonnet (which it has never had). At the time he said you should see at least 3 turns come through the nyloc nut whereas most of the bolts finished flat with the outer nut. I'm a series refugee at the moment (which is quite fun) so its not in my regs or anything.

I think I may change the ones you can obviously see and as you say leave the ones that are rusted into the floor ;-) Just have visions of my shell bending into the shape it should be after 18yrs of hard knocks as soon as I losen the cage! I think I'll do one at a time....

[Al Weyman]

Cadwell! Ah I see. Whats wrong with cable ties on the roll cage padding?