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21 Jul 2017, 15:36 (Ref:3753360) | #576 | ||
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Honda explains root of its Formula 1 2017 troubles.
http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130866 |
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"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
21 Jul 2017, 15:42 (Ref:3753364) | #577 | |||
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"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
21 Jul 2017, 15:45 (Ref:3753367) | #578 | ||
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21 Jul 2017, 15:46 (Ref:3753368) | #579 | ||
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I just can't go with this 'McLaren to use any PU other than Honda' story. I know that the Honda unit has been an abject (and very public) disaster, but there are so many negatives to using anything else that I can only see McLaren & Honda continuing again next season.
Apart from the understandable reluctance of any of the other manufacturers 'giving' their engine to an apparently well designed McLaren chassis and the possible embarrassment that could cause, surely Mercedes (for example) already supply the maximum number of customer teams, so that would need unanimous consent from all of the other teams to allow McLaren to use their lumps, so that's unlikely to say the least. Plus I was of the opinion that all teams had to register their PU supplier for the following season by the end of May the previous year? If that has already happened I cannot believe that this information wouldn't have leaked out by now, so we must assume it hasn't, and therefore, McLaren-Honda it is for next year again! |
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21 Jul 2017, 16:05 (Ref:3753370) | #580 | ||||
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Richard |
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To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one." |
21 Jul 2017, 20:03 (Ref:3753411) | #581 | |||
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And it should be noted that when Renault, with the backing of Ferrari, asked the FIA to delay the introduction of the new PUs, Mercedes was against the request as their unit was ready to go. This is possibly because they had been running similar power units on commercial test vehicles for some time, so that they were way ahead of the game. |
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21 Jul 2017, 20:43 (Ref:3753420) | #582 | ||
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I went round HP engines a couple of years before the current engine formula and they had a version of the new engine on display. Obviously not showing anything radical (in case I nicked the idea for my B ), but it was clear from that and the talk that they had been looking at it for some time and were well down the development path. This was helped by the freeze on the current engines at the time.
It struck me at the time that everyone else was still discussing, whinging about or trying to change the engine regs while Merc were simply getting on with developing it. Throwing it money at it is one thing, but Merc used time. They had lots of it relative to the others. It's rare in life, business or sport you get that advantage over others and they took full advantage. |
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21 Jul 2017, 21:03 (Ref:3753423) | #583 | |||
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"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
22 Jul 2017, 04:45 (Ref:3753464) | #584 | |||
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Happy David Thexton Day, 21st March 2003 “I am not uncertain” - Dollar Bill Stern, Billions “Fear stimulates my imagination” - Don Draper, Mad Men “Everybody Lies” - Dr Gregory House |
22 Jul 2017, 13:16 (Ref:3753521) | #585 | |
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I think you are asking if RBR has a veto clause in their agreement with Renault? Interesting question.
I haven't read up on the process for McLaren to switch in 2018 AFTER already having giving official notice of their selected power unit (as they have and have named Honda). Would that include all teams having to agree to the change (effectively giving any team veto power?) or is there some type of force majeure scenario that wouldn't require other team approval? The only force majeure scenario I can think of is if Honda leave F1 completely at end of 2017 (leaving McLaren with no solution). But I don't see that happening. I don't think McLaren wanting to leave Honda would qualify. Richard |
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22 Jul 2017, 16:32 (Ref:3753541) | #586 | ||
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That's why they wanted to bring Honda development to UK so they themselves could go ahead and try to turn their fantasy PU into reality once Honda failed. They think they can be better bosses to Honda staff and technology. |
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22 Jul 2017, 17:09 (Ref:3753551) | #587 | |||
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"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
23 Jul 2017, 04:00 (Ref:3753675) | #588 | |||
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Happy David Thexton Day, 21st March 2003 “I am not uncertain” - Dollar Bill Stern, Billions “Fear stimulates my imagination” - Don Draper, Mad Men “Everybody Lies” - Dr Gregory House |
23 Jul 2017, 04:01 (Ref:3753676) | #589 | |||
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Happy David Thexton Day, 21st March 2003 “I am not uncertain” - Dollar Bill Stern, Billions “Fear stimulates my imagination” - Don Draper, Mad Men “Everybody Lies” - Dr Gregory House |
23 Jul 2017, 05:37 (Ref:3753685) | #590 | |||
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Brawn GP was only registered as an entrant just 3 weeks before the first round in Australia. As a "new entry", FOTA (the now defunct Formula One Teams Association) had zero say in what engine Brawn GP could use. Brawn GP also paid no entry fees for the 2009 season. This was a special deal agreed to by the FiA and FOM, due to "exceptional circumstances". In the background though, Honda Motor Company funded the entire 2009 season of Brawn GP, and it's staff. It's almost the 10 year anniversary of one of the biggest farcical moments in F1, and in world sports in general, when multinational Honda MC withdrew from F1 - then renamed the team as Brawn GP, still being funded entirely by Honda, who then went on to win both F1 championships as a privateer named Brawn GP - powered by a Mercedes engine! |
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When did I do dangerous driving??? |
23 Jul 2017, 09:12 (Ref:3753708) | #591 | |||
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Happy David Thexton Day, 21st March 2003 “I am not uncertain” - Dollar Bill Stern, Billions “Fear stimulates my imagination” - Don Draper, Mad Men “Everybody Lies” - Dr Gregory House |
23 Jul 2017, 12:47 (Ref:3753745) | #592 | ||
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I'm cheering for Alonso/McLaren/Honda package cause they work their ass off trying to make up for coming late to the party. The only thing I mind is the public blame game by Boullier. That's like Samsung blaming the battery manufacturer for Note 7 fiasco even though it was Samsung who gave battery specs to the manufacturer. It doesn't work like that and I'm glad that someone pointed the finger at him not to do that kind of stuff in public anymore. In my opinion if they somehow match Red Bull by 2019 I would consider it a success cause current engine specs were rigged by Mercedes who even threatened to pull out of the caravan if those proposed specs didn't turn out to be official specs. That's whole another story of Mercedes having the technology ready, lobbying for it and then presenting it as remarkable outside the box thinking compared to other teams. |
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23 Jul 2017, 14:32 (Ref:3753763) | #593 | |||
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This time, McLaren is the guinea pig... |
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Happy David Thexton Day, 21st March 2003 “I am not uncertain” - Dollar Bill Stern, Billions “Fear stimulates my imagination” - Don Draper, Mad Men “Everybody Lies” - Dr Gregory House |
23 Jul 2017, 14:39 (Ref:3753765) | #594 | |
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The main problem is after making good progress last season, it's been thrown away as they have become an embarrassment this season. They need to get their finger out soon
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He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
23 Jul 2017, 15:23 (Ref:3753772) | #595 | |||
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"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
23 Jul 2017, 17:50 (Ref:3753798) | #596 | ||
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23 Jul 2017, 17:53 (Ref:3753799) | #597 | |
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23 Jul 2017, 17:56 (Ref:3753800) | #598 | |||
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"One intriguing number suggests that Honda paid the team a total of £92.5m during the year – a figure that almost matches up with the overall profit. It’s known that Honda bankrolled the team fully until March, and in effect paid for the development of the car, but presumably the rest was a ‘dowry’ to help keep the team going." Third paragraph. https://adamcooperf1.com/2010/09/14/...rofit-in-2009/ |
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23 Jul 2017, 19:34 (Ref:3753810) | #599 | ||
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presumably that Honda funding also paid for Brawn's engine supply for the year. certainly a bit of irony there given what Brawn went on to and what the team they ultimately became...dont know i would describe it as a farcical period though.
Honda saved a lot of staff in the process and gave second life to the ingenuity that was Super Aguri and did so without any credit. given what the team became i would say its one of the better stories in the last 10 years and something that speaks to the type of fraternity which F1 should try to aspire to. anyways, Honda have sent a lot of money Mclaren's way...depending on what the break clauses are and how Mclaren have spent or saved that money, Honda might find themselves, indirectly at least, find themselves paying for a team to use someone else's engines....again! |
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24 Jul 2017, 07:25 (Ref:3753882) | #600 | |
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