GT3 v's Supercar v's SuperTouring v's TCR - The Ultimate Thread

[Mixer]

Very nice write up on the MARC cars in AA:

https://autoaction.com.au/2017/02/28...arc-ford-focus

For $230k I'd have one over a $300k TCR Audi any day of the week!!!

[FIRE]

Still don't understand the 300k price. Or is this import tax?

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Still don't understand the 300k price. Or is this import tax?

Just the Australia tax.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Umai Naa]

Presumably the only way to purchase a new one, is via MPC the Australian Audi Customer Sport agent.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Very nice write up on the MARC cars in AA:

https://autoaction.com.au/2017/02/28...arc-ford-focus

For $230k I'd have one over a $300k TCR Audi any day of the week!!!

230k is a good price. Maybe MARC regulations should replace Supercars.

The proper TCR price is 150k which is reasonable but not nearly as attractive as the MARC price for what you get (production based race car vs purpose built MARC race car).

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

The proper TCR price is 150k which is reasonable but not nearly as attractive as the MARC price for what you get (production based race car vs purpose built MARC race car).

130k Euro is $195k AUD.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Mixer

130k Euro is $195k AUD.

where is the $300K number from then?

Ive missed that part of the discussion.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by peckstar

where is the $300K number from then?

It is what Audi quoted for the RS3 TCR.

The price cap for TCR is 130k Euro, so the markup is mucking refarkable.

Even if the $300k AUD figure includes GST, it is still 20% out.

I would suggest it doesn't include GST!

[Axeman444]

Just the usual oh-you-want-to-buy-this-in-Australia tax

[Umai Naa]

If you're dead keen on one, you could always wait til one pops up on the used market, and bring it in yourself.

You'd probably still come out in front even if it needed a freshen-up.

[Compromised]

What if...

We keep running Supercars under Gen2 regs for a few more years, see how it progresses, who comes, who goes, popularity etc. From there, if we really do need to transition to something else, why not Super 5000?

I know it won't be the most well received idea, but I truly believe it has merit. Manufacturer interest is arguably waning, sponsorship is always hard to come by, post GFC even harder maybe. Crowd numbers are slightly down at some tracks... not exactly dire circumstances but as always, whats your contingency?

What worries me is the above issues are no fault of Supercars - the quality of driver/racing is as good as it gets, the TV production is excellent (Foxtel), the cars themselves have always been fun to watch... and yet the modern fan isn't as receptive as they once where. Is the tin top concept stale?

All this brings us to Super 5000. F1's "hybridization" has taught us that fans seem to prefer pure IC engines, simple aero (read less aero wash) and big tyres. Super 5000 has all these attributes and when you consider the level of professionalism within the series, on and off track, plus the ease in which you can reach an international audience these days, it has the potential to be quite a popular series both here and abroad.

All a bit pie in the sky I know, but a boy can dream right

[rich07]

Australian fans are too narrow minded to accept open wheelers as their top category. It's a shame many Supercar fans haven't taken off the blinkers and explored what else in the world of Motorsport they could enjoy.

The world of motorsport is big and full of variety. Maybe if people opened their eyes instead of blindly following one category then we'd have some following of open wheelers in this country like we had in the 50s and 60s.

Tintops aren't everything.

And for those of you in the hot seat playing at home, this isn't a crack solely at Supercar fans it's more generalised then that. We're all at fault.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by rich07

Australian fans are too narrow minded to accept open wheelers as their top category. It's a shame many Supercar fans haven't taken off the blinkers and explored what else in the world of Motorsport they could enjoy.

The world of motorsport is big and full of variety. Maybe if people opened their eyes instead of blindly following one category then we'd have some following of open wheelers in this country like we had in the 50s and 60s.

Tintops aren't everything.

And for those of you in the hot seat playing at home, this isn't a crack solely at Supercar fans it's more generalised then that. We're all at fault.

during the 50s and 60s open wheelers started to move away from a road going look and thus the interest in that style vehicle was reduced to where it is today.

I cant see open wheelers ever again attracting main stream acceptance outside of what we already have a connection too (eg F1)

[Umai Naa]

In other news, Audisport have just completed their 100th RS3 LMS TCR racer.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Compromised

What if...
and yet the modern fan isn't as receptive as they once where. Is the tin top concept stale?

No, the downfall of Supercars is the demise of the Ford and Holden rivalry.

The downfall of any sporting series is when nobody cares who wins. Frankly, in Supercars these days nobody really cares who wins. The product is fine, but the passion is missing in fans. [I don't really care who wins or doesn't win.]

Take that fan passion out of Hawthorn vs Collingwood, or Chelsea vs Manchester United and you have the same problem.

[Compromised]

Yeah fair call. People seem to like the series, but those who I would describe as passionate are few and far between.

Maybe cars aren't as big a part of our culture as they once were. Could well be the popularity of the series can't really be improved no matter the rules and regulations.

[PS2244]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

No, the downfall of Supercars is the demise of the Ford and Holden rivalry.

The downfall of any sporting series is when nobody cares who wins. Frankly, in Supercars these days nobody really cares who wins. The product is fine, but the passion is missing in fans. [I don't really care who wins or doesn't win.]

Take that fan passion out of Hawthorn vs Collingwood, or Chelsea vs Manchester United and you have the same problem.

Respectfully disagree I think that with the addition of new manufacturers the sport has become evolved to become more driver/team support oriented rather than strictly manufacturer based. If you did a survey people would be more likely to mention a team or driver rather than a brand. Plus the cessation of that 2 manufacturer format was for the better, Supercars wouldn't have survived off it so I can't understand why it'd be the downfall with all due respect

[Umai Naa]

Driver/Team/Badge.

You can only pick one.

[PS2244]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

Driver/Team/Badge.

You can only pick one.

Well that's emphasises what I'm trying to point out people are becoming more inclined to support a team OR driver rather than the respective badge

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by PS2244

Well that's emphasises what I'm trying to point out people are becoming more inclined to support a team OR driver rather than the respective badge

But is that a reducing audience? The point as above was that the holden vs Ford rivalry was more engaging to the public as opposed to LDM vs Walkinshaw Performance. It's not the same passion

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

But is that a reducing audience? The point as above was that the holden vs Ford rivalry was more engaging to the public as opposed to LDM vs Walkinshaw Performance. It's not the same passion

I reckon we have seen that this year. HRT walked to another team, the long term die hard HRT supporters have seen that as a reason to stop attending.

[Oldtony]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

No, the downfall of Supercars is the demise of the Ford and Holden rivalry.

The downfall of any sporting series is when nobody cares who wins. Frankly, in Supercars these days nobody really cares who wins. The product is fine, but the passion is missing in fans. [I don't really care who wins or doesn't win.]

Take that fan passion out of Hawthorn vs Collingwood, or Chelsea vs Manchester United and you have the same problem.

A very good summation of the present state of Supercars.

Personally I think that we need to forget our tin top hang up and look for a platform where the drivers become a more prominent (and visible) part of the show. It needs to be easily transferable to games technology and have some level of individuality and technical interest in the platform.
Don't think spec series works as suggested for Super 5000 but a common safety cell/tub allowing a degree of individuality in suspension, aero and power unit might work.
The fans we are chasing are not those who already have a tin top fixation, but a whole new group who want excitement, spectacle, action, noise and identifiable heroes.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

A very good summation of the present state of Supercars.

Personally I think that we need to forget our tin top hang up and look for a platform where the drivers become a more prominent (and visible) part of the show. It needs to be easily transferable to games technology and have some level of individuality and technical interest in the platform.
Don't think spec series works as suggested for Super 5000 but a common safety cell/tub allowing a degree of individuality in suspension, aero and power unit might work.
The fans we are chasing are not those who already have a tin top fixation, but a whole new group who want excitement, spectacle, action, noise and identifiable heroes.

Is that what they want?

Dont we have f1 that meet the open wheeler criteria, who dont have v8s.

Surely the modern world has moved on from v8s. The current vehicle market suggest that is not the path of the future

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by peckstar

The current vehicle market suggest that is not the path of the future

The current semi-affordable performance vehicle market is all about 4 cylinder turbo hot hatches, aka TCR.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Surely the modern world has moved on from v8s.

Yes and no. The Mustang GT350, Audi R8 Plus and Ferrari 812 Superfast are the much revered last hurrah of the mighty V8, V10 and V12 respectively. Incredible parting gifts to the mighty naturally aspirated engine.