Rossi

[BootsOntheSide]

I know that's 4 wheels and this is 2, but the incident was a little similar to Fisichella and Webber in Malaysia F1 a few weeks ago, except that Rossi had his bike under control when he went into the corner. If Sete had gone wide he may have been able to cut back inside was Tino got a slow exit off the corner - he had no need to turn in and risk damage to his or Vale's bike, or injury to either of them. If it wasn't the last lap, at home, I'm sure he'd've acted mroe rationally, but it's far too early in the season to let something like this get to him.

It's strange with Seté. For years he was a respectable journeyman, but then when he got Gresini behind him in 2003he suddenly became a frontrunner - it's easy to suspect that osmeone else was ridign with him in spirit that year. He had better team support than Max last year, which might explain why he beat him to 2nd in the championship, but he was frequently a genuine threat to Rossi. I think his main weakness is mental, and it could be that psychologically he's already lost this year.

[mac]

It was a bad move by Rossi.

He gave himself up when he took his foot off the peg and began to stand his bike up - he knew he was in way too hot and was just trying not to take them both out.

I love this talk about the guy in front having to pull over and let the guy go sailing by him because he went in too quick and then duck back up the inside.

How on Earth is Sete supposed to know when the guy behind him has lost it and is barrelling down the inside?

What about some onus goes on the overtaking rider to make a clean pass, rather than the guy in front having to make way because the guy in front of him has lost it?

It was great racing right up until that final corner, when it was clean - racing for me is not ramming your opponent out of the way. I am a huge Rossi fan, but he was out of line at Jerez.

And David, if Sete was spitting at Rossi he is a bad shot - he spat on the ground!

[mmciau]

It is just one incident in all the track race miles these blokes have ridden. VR was hasty into the corner for sure and yes they made more than reasonable contact but SG could have washed off some speed and cut in behind VR. SG was on the limit and when leaned upon couldn't control properly.

But the dummy spit afterwards! Not really becoming.

Mike

[thejester]

Rossi often lifts a foot off the pegs, I don't think that can be seen as a signhe was totally out of control.

imho the gap was open, pass was on. Gibernau should have leaned in harder. If he had've done, and stayed on the track, there would've been no issue, no matter who crossed the line first. Hard racing, but fair.

Sete's rage is entirely understandable after his home race. I mean who wouldn't feel robbed in his position, but he needs to put it behind him and get on with the season. At least he didn't fall down

[TheMan]

I agree the Jester, I have just completed watching the replay of the race again and every time Rossi executed the last turn he removed his foot from the pegs so I don`t think that this taking his foot from the peg on the last lap proves he was out of control, more just his style of riding into the corner as it happened every lap for 27 laps. I don`t think this means he was out of control into that corner every lap do you.

This is purely and simply racing and the best on the planet. Rossi wants to win more than Sete and Sete can`t handle the fact that he got beaten again on a bike heknows is better than the Yam. They were both at fault for this incident which means it is a racing incident.

I also didn`t like the way Sete used the crowd to jeer Rossi and also the altercation and Spitting in the Parc Ferme area wa appalling. Sete used to have a fan here but based on his after race performance on Sunday he is going to have to work very hard to win me back over.

[Hazza]

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2005mgp/jerez/2/

You could fit a F1 car up the gap that Sete left, but then again, that's no excuse for running him off the road.

[mac]

Look at the third photo there!

Rossi's bike is way more upright than Sete's - it is at about that point that Valentino realises he's not going to be able to pull off the pass.

In fact, his knee doesn't get anywhere near the ground until Gibernau is off the circuit.

It is up to the overtaking rider to pull off a clean move, not for the guy in front to pull over in case the guy behind him is going in WAY too hot.

It was a move of desperation - Rossi couldn't take that he was going to be beaten after his mistake at the previous hairpin.

As I said, I am a huge Rossi fan, but he was out of line there.

[chunder]

I think again that on reflection you have to apportion some blame to Sete even though the move was a little harsh. He could have just gone over to the inside and prevented Vale from doing anythiung like that. Then Vale would have been the one on the outside and maybe paddling through the gravel.
We ave seen what Vale is like when he is beat and though not as miserable as Sete, he still gets his mood out and starts quoting rubbish. THat is why in my eyes he will never be the champ Mick was, coz when Mick was duffed up he would just shrug ans say "fair play" as he did with Alex all those times. His only complaints were with HRC making his settings available which is understandable and would never happen now!
Still think Vale was too hasty and too desperate, but on reflection Sete could easily have moved across to the inside and made it much much harder for Vale in the first place!
Gonna be interesting if the two are in the same places in Estoril, imagine thatlittle chicane!! Have to say though Vale has been awesome there in recent years.

[racer69]

Move was fair enough i'd say. Very hard, but it was the last lap, last corner.....

Is all this talk about Gibernau's shoulder serious? Sounds abit to much like a Nigel Mansell moment for me.....

[ASCII Man]

Originally Posted by Hazza

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2005mgp/jerez/2/

You could fit a F1 car up the gap that Sete left, but then again, that's no excuse for running him off the road.

No gap, Sete's taking the racing line there as you'd normally would take it.
It's really absurd to put even a shred of blame on Sete for Vale's major screw up(s)...

Rossi should be fined for an idiotic move like that...
This is not bumper karts for ****s sake...

[Dani Filth]

racing line or not . there was a space . and he went for it . he was side by side and Sete turned .. contact ..

[NiG_21]

Some facts...

Sete was aleady turning for the corner when VR was more than a bike length back (but catching quickly). Whether you believe there was a gap or not, VR did fit between SG and the curb.

Sete had a choice of conceeding the corner in the interests of safety or trying it on himself, albeit from a seriously disadvantaged position (the outside line).

VR would have not made the corner if SG weren't there and he did use SG as his brake.

SG did not have an option to 'let VR through to make a mess of the corner as wherever VR went SG was in such a position as to still be in the way or take the corner just as wide.

My opinion...
It was a bullish move by VR, which inevitably will always end in contact and I believe VR knew he'd be on the advantageous side of that contact (eg SG would always go wider). It should not be encouraged as it is just plain dangerous regardless of a rider/drivers skill.

I have to admit that does not appear to be a racing incident to me but a calculated move which by rights should be penalised at minimum with a 'yellow card' issued for reckless driving. Do it again and you're a DSQ!

Strange... when I started typing this I was firmly in the racing incident camp! Looks like I changed my mind as I put it down in words.

All done... it was an excellent last lap and trully thrilling to watch, shame about the dubious tactics.

[ASCII Man]

The line that Rossi took was waaaaaay too sharp to make a pass without losing a lot of speed on the exit...
Pure kamikaze move IMO...

[gfm]

Thanks to Hazza's link to those photos of the clash, you can see that actually Rossi was quite a long way up alondside as Sete turned in. Surprised me that, and convinces me that Sete misjudged it by trying to be so firm on shutting the door.
Much better off as I said, letting Rossi sail on by and tuck in behind him. Sete had done it twice already that lap and had got back in front.
My verdict is still - very hard from Rossi ... (but he won).

[Marbot]

It reminded me a little of Fisechellas "move" on Webber in Sepang,and we all know who got the blame for that(officially at any rate).

Let's not forget,it is up to the overtaker to make a clean pass and not for the guy in front to concede that which is already his.

[ozrevhead]

Originally Posted by Yoong Montoya

Sorry mate, but ramming the bike ahead of you out of the way is NOT, I repeat NOT racing.

Agree 100% - Every1 likes good racing but this was below the belt! Personally i thought it was v dirty and unsportsman like!

Just because is was Rossi, he shouldnt have to get away with booting his opponent off the race track!!!! He seems to be doing it far too often and i have turned off him cause it! I uese to like him but now....

If Rossi is going to contiue down this route that I hope that for his sake that his driving doent seriously hurt someone!

Well done to Sete for being so gracious and I hope for his sake that he can win the championship without resorting to Rossi's dirty tricks!

GO SETE!!

[SALEEN S7R]

Originally Posted by ozrevhead

Well done to Sete for being so gracious and I hope for his sake that he can win the championship without resorting to Rossi's dirty tricks!

GO SETE!!

I agree, well done Sete for resisting the urge to not have some sort of physical confronation with Vale, it took a lot of self restraint to hold back the way he did I think and in my eyes came away from Jerez on top, at least morally. Lets hope Vale can race fairly this weekend if in a situation like he found himself at Jerez.

[asha]

while i agree that "thats racing", i thought Rossi's move was do-or-die and thats not racing, that ram-or-win attitude is pretty weak.

poor form valentino!

The only good thing to come from it is that Rossi will lose fans.

[SPman]

It is racing - it is what the ultimate driven racer is all about! Ultimate skill and a particular dedicated determinism to win - a particular form of ....ruthlessness, that seperates the top achievers from the others. ! It is not about a polite drive around the track - which is why Rossi wins and Sete is second!

[ASCII Man]

Some people here have a really warped sense of what is racing...

I'd want to thank the likes of Senna/TGF for creating these 'Do or Die' racers who put winning a race above everything else, even when endangering other competitors lives in the process..
If anyone would have done something like that to me in a race, I would've beaten him senseless...

[Alex Hodgkinson]

the whole race is available here btw:

www2.motogp.com/ppv_multimedia2/337/337512_77560.wmv

[chunder]

I agree ASCII and tat is why in m eyes Senna will always be i m top ten of drivers but never near the top!
I dont think Vale's move was in the same league as THAT move Senna did on Prost at Suzuka, but nevertheless it did indicate a certain win or bust mentality that Mick never reall showed.
Mick hated getting beaten, especially by Criville but though he raced hard and touched with him on occasion I ca't recall an other incident that comes to mind from him.
Obviousl the Jerez one when Alex hihsided is very similar, bu I always believed that Alex was more put off b the fans than anthing else there. Mick did launch it up the inside, but the he got his just deserts at Eastern Creek the next ear when Alex rammed it up te inside and took hem both down!!
When you look at those two, tey didnte reall get along and the rivalr was just as fierce as Sete/Rossi. You dont really think it was that silly, so afer reacting strongly in Sete's favour initially, his attituide and play acting since and a little wiseness after the event make me think it was as harsh as ou can get without being disqualified! Wonder what would have happened if Sete had not finished!

[gfm]

Sete - gracious? ********. If he'd wiseup and actually be slightly gracious, he'd be a harder man to beat.
I say again, it takes two to tangle - if Sete had guessed Rossi was coming and couldn't stop AS HE HAD FAILED TO DO TWICE THOSE FINAL LAPS ALREADY, he could have ducked up inside him an got to the flag first.
Nevermind, Sete will get his revenge I'm sure. Just what is going to happen at the next GP . . . ?

[Canberra>karter]

Originally Posted by gfm

Sete - gracious? ********. If he'd wiseup and actually be slightly gracious, he'd be a harder man to beat.
I say again, it takes two to tangle - if Sete had guessed Rossi was coming and couldn't stop AS HE HAD FAILED TO DO TWICE THOSE FINAL LAPS ALREADY, he could have ducked up inside him an got to the flag first.
Nevermind, Sete will get his revenge I'm sure. Just what is going to happen at the next GP . . . ?

I agree that Sete needs to wise up, he i getting beat emotionaly by Rossi. But to say he should have "Guessed" that Rossi was going to dive bomb him is unfair, if Rossi had entered the corner at a speed that would allow him to have track position on the exit, Sete wouldn't have collected him entering the turn.

Tell me this, should Sete back off if it comes down to the last corner again next race? it isn't so easy now is it

[NiG_21]

Originally Posted by gfm

I say again, it takes two to tangle

Absolutely NO...it doesn't!

If someone is determined to tangle it only needs that person to cause it!

You could go-on to argue that the who incident was Sete's fault merely becasue he decided enter the race that day...what facetious reasoning is that then...?