Speed - Vote on Favorite Racing

[muggle not]

Speed is taking votes on your favorite form of racing. good opportunity to make yourself heard....I think!! Is it possible that they really want to know what we want to see on SPEED? Go to and vote:

http://www.speedtv.com/user/login.ht...cat=40&a_id=13

[Liz]

It took me Five Tries (!!!) but I finally got through their stupid system and registered. Do you think if nobody says they watch NASCRAP they will take it all away and give us back our sports cars? We can but hope!

[Rutle]

Originally posted by Liz
Do you think if nobody says they watch NASCRAP they will take it all away and give us back our sports cars?

It would be a sad old motor sport world if all our favourites were the same as yours Liz!! (whatever that is - sports cars for hours and hours and hours, spread out and covered by dozens of laps with so many different classes that the slower cars are more like mobile chicanes - yeah fascinating)

You've obviously never been to Daytona and witnessed the epitome of exciting motor racing.

You really ought to get out more.

[Adam43]

Originally posted by Rutle
- you sound like an F1 fan to me by those comments

Can't wait for this reply!

Here a to you Rutle. And one to you too Liz for whatever you write!

[paul-collins]

Originally posted by Rutle
You've obviously never been to Daytona and witnessed the epitome of exciting motor racing.

What, Sportscars still race at Daytona?

[Aysedasi]

Originally posted by Rutle


It would be a sad old motor sport world if all our favourites were the same as yours Liz!! (whatever that is - sports cars for hours and hours and hours, spread out and covered by dozens of laps with so many different classes that the slower cars are more like mobile chicanes - yeah fascinating)

You've obviously never been to Daytona and witnessed the epitome of exciting motor racing.

You really ought to get out more.

Hmm. Now now children. Rutle's initial sentiment is of course quite right, we're all entitled to enjoy whatever form of motorsport we like. I could pass similar comment to Liz's regarding F1, but......



(Having said that, you're a brave man Rutle coming onto the Sportscar/GT forum and giving sportscars a hard time..... )

[Mal]

Spot the lad whose never been to Lemans!

[Fab]

I can't see any problem of beeing fan of another kind of racing than, well, let's say it, Le Mans...

I'm only a LM fan myself, but I have other passions than LM, without any connection with car racing...

So no difficulties to recognize that somenone could feel passionnate with F1, rallies, Nascar, or other races... the interrest is in the variety of choice, and more, the hability of having a choice... problems arise when there's no alternative choice any more (see FIA behaviour).

BTW, my preoccupation is not who's the best in the different race categories, but if the next LM race will be interresting... well, as a LM fan, I mean ! I understand too that the debate could occure...

Well,

[Mal]

Debate is always healthy as long as it is the right tone and that is cetainly the case on the sportscars forum. I am a fan of Lemans as you know but I also follow other forms of racing. I had always been sceptical of oval racing, but I went to Rockingham last year and was stunned by the intensity and excitment of the racing.
For that reason I am sure Rutle is right when he say the Daytona 500 (I assume he means the 500) is a extremely exciting event. I think what is clear is that you need to see an event live before you can really judge. TV completely dilutes the thrill of the speed and noise that you get at the circuit.
For example, we may all criticise F1 but if you haven't just once experience the speed and sheer noise of an F1 car driven in anger then you have missed out.

[Groupc]

I have a number of lasting motor racing memories; certainly leaning on the armco barrier (in someone's garden) just before the kink on the Mulsanne at 03:00 hrs listening as the sound of Jaguars and 956's came ever closer, looking back up the track as the lights came in and out of view because of the contours of the road, and then feeling the draft as they went by and seeing the turbos and exhausts glowing red just before they disappeared from view is one of the best.

Watching in awe as Gilles Villeneuve went by us at Monaco towards the end of the 1980 Grand Prix power-sliding on a damp track through Ste Devote and away up the hill lap after lap.

Hans Stuck at Silverstone driving a BMW M1 in the pouring rain, as the commentator said at the time, "even his wipers are going faster than anyone else"!

But...the warm up laps and then the 1st racing lap of the Daytona 500 when 43 cars came by at speed for the first made the hairs on the back of my kneck stand up and it time will stay with me forever.

Surely, there's no such thing as bad motor racing.

[muggle not]

Maybe it is my fault but we seem to be missing the point here. The purpose of the vote is to determine what programs to show on Speed Channel (HOPEFULLY).

[Rutle]

Just to put the record straight - I have been a motor sport fan for over 40 years and have been involved in one way or another on both sides of the paddock fence since 1972.

Back then I loved F1 and visited many european GP's as well as the British - (gone off it a bit now but still have to watch it and still go to Monaco for the atmosphere - not the race) - and Sports/GT - (my second ever race meeting was the BOAC 500 at Brands in '69) - right thru to now (including Le Mans Mal).

At home I have been involved in Special Saloons back in the '70's and '80's and more recently historic sports (Gp6).

I've been a fan of BTCC in the past, F3, DTM and many other categories. But - ever since I was a kid and dad had some black and white film of very early NASCAR - that was what I really wanted to see.

And in 1997 I did - the Daytona 500 is the most exciting, breathtaking thing I've ever seen in my life. Quite simply, to stand down by the wall at the exit of turn four as 40+ of those monsters come past just feet away (and inches apart) at around 200 mph, literally shaking the ground under your feet, is something every motorsport fan should experience before they die.

So - I have been around the block. I was just a bit put out at the way Liz immediately dissed NASCAR as "NASCRAP" obviously with absolutely no experience of what it is really like. You really do have to be there rather than just watching it on TV - and the same goes for all motorsport.

Hence the comment - you really ought to get out more.

[Liz]

My father raced stock cars before it became NASCRAP, er, NASCAR. I grew up in the South and was surrounded by them almost exclusively. I don't enjoy seeing huge crashes and I can't understand anything Ward Burton says.

I stopped watching F1 when Prost retired and Senna got killed, as the modern version is nothing but a 'bidness' and all the drivers became little boys who look good in the sponsor's clothes and say what their handlers tell them to say.

I am an avid fan of sports cars in every series, World Rally, MotoGP and World Super Bikes, but my first love is Le Mans and so the ALMS. I love sports cars and I enjoy tactical racing, beautiful cars, and friendly drivers who are available to talk to me.

As for the modern day 'bidness' of NASCAR, I consider a field of 43 taxicabs running in a circle to be repetitive at the best, and since I saw a 93 car pileup at Langhorne PA when I was young, I have seen all the crashes I care to see... and I'm old enough so I have seen plenty of people killed in those crashes, so I don't find them entertaining. And finally, I don't want to spend an entire race having drunken bums shouting "show us your t*ts" at me.

And Muggle Not is correct, the idea is to go to Speed Channel and vote for the kind of racing you want them to broadcast. We sports car people would like to see more sports cars! I'm sure the NASCRAp people will go and vote for that.

[paul-collins]

My basic problem with NASCAR on Speed is that it's everywhere else, too, while other motorsports are only on Speed. Does it really need to crowd out diversity?

Put another way, Speed is trying to get more viewers, and see the huge NASCAR fan base as its natural target. They've already got the rest of us, and realistically, are we going to cancel our subscription over lost sportscar coverage? Where else can we go? I've let them know in no uncertain terms how unhappy I was about the loss of Le Mans coverage to 4 hours of paid programming, but I haven't heard anything back. Frankly, they don't care - they only have to maintain a minimum to keep me, because no one else offers anything.

It's like the story about walking in the woods and watching for bears. Remember, you don't have to be faster than the bear - only faster than your fellow walkers.

[Rutle]

Liz
Apology first - only just noticed that you're in Canada - and I suppose too much of anything (including NASCAR)is not a good thing.

Secondly - I don't watch (or enjoy) NASCAR for the crashes but for the sight, sound and smell and the 200mph draughting skills of the drivers - which, by the way, we used to enjoy just as much in F1 at places like Monza - until wings put a stop to that.

And third ....

quote from liz
I am an avid fan of sports cars in every series, World Rally, MotoGP and World Super Bikes

....glad to hear it and I'll drink to that!!!

[Liz]

Well, there's always room for a frank exchange of views, eh? We do have plenty of crashes up here -- that is why we have Paul Tracy.

I think there should be more foreigners in NASCAR. So does Ron Fellows -- who contrary to Sam Posey's belief, is not American.

[Mal]

Rutle, I thank you for you reply and I take your points you are clearly fortunate enough to have experienced a few more sights and sounds in Motorsport than I have. I would love and hope to experience NASCAR one day and until then I will not pass comment.
My passion is of course LeMans where the racing is only half of what I enjoy about the place. But I am not and will not close my mind to any form on motorsport. I apologise if my comment seemed arrogant - it was meant in good humour.

[Mal]

Crashes may add to the spectacle of our sport , but they do not breed the passion. The sights and sound that give us our best memories are exactly those described by GroupC above. Who can forget the sight of a truly exceptional talent making memories such as those. I salute the likes of Hans Stuck, Gilles etc for provide them for us.

[Liz]

Yes, I agree -- and that's why I don't watch F1 any more. Who could compare today's product to what we saw between St. Gilles and Rene Arnoux at Dijon?

The best part of Le Mans this year (on the track) was the race between the two GT cars == Racer's Group and Freisinger == manned by the Porsche Works drivers from Alex Job Racing. And the best racing at Mid-Ohio was that between Alex Job Car 23 and Petersen Motorsports' Randy Pobst! Nobody really knew there were any Audis in either race.

[The Brethren]

Originally posted by Liz
Well, there's always room for a frank exchange of views, eh? We do have plenty of crashes up here -- that is why we have Paul Tracy

Isn't that something to do with the fact that PT is such a fat bastad that his car was specially built for him and is twice as wide as everybody elses car which means that nobody can get past unless they ram him ???

Rusty

[muggle not]

Originally posted by paul-collins

It's like the story about walking in the woods and watching for bears. Remember, you don't have to be faster than the bear - only faster than your fellow walkers.

The above quote is close to my heart as from early May thru June there was a "huge" black bear that came down from the mountain and was seen about 12 times in my back yard. One time the bear was hiding in the woods waiting for me to leave the yard whereupon he demolished my birdfeeder and enjoyed the feast. As we all know, bears can run faster and climb better than humans....so....what would I do if the bear came upon me when I was in the yard. The only thing that comes to my mind is the old song by Phil Harris (some of you remember him):

"Lord if you dont help me please dont help that bear".

[Jack Man]

My attitude, If it's got wheels you can race it.

[Jack Man]

But I voted for sports cars

[Aysedasi]

Originally posted by Rutle
Liz
I don't watch (or enjoy) NASCAR for the crashes but for the sight, sound and smell

Exactly. That's just why I go to Le Mans every year. The sight of the cars, the sound of the engines and the smell of the ........

oh well, let's just say the smell of the frites and merguez, shall we?

It doesn't take a genius to realise that we're all here because we have a love of motor racing in one form or another. I've never seen NASCAR, but that doesn't mean I don't want to. I have seen F1 and due to what I've seen since 1994 that does mean I don't want to see it any more.

Horses for courses.

[Liz]

I remember Phil Harris' song well -- my mother has it on an old 78 RPM record!

Paul Tracy is on a diet. He is lean and mean now.