V8s, Are There Now too Many?

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by terence bower

But Moose is absolutly correct,you do have to run the standard manifolds Simon.They are available new from Steve Warrior,[Machined internally if required]Not too sure on the legality of that though.The last Mustang I was involved in was built strictly to the the reg,s,it was just about as qick as some,after spending a not inconsiderable sum building the car,the owner decided to sell after three races because it was not a front runner,he is an above average driver!

The Mustang Hi-Output 289 and Shelby's came as standard with tubular fabricated Tri-Y manifolds not cast manifolds that gave very reasonable performance especially lower in the rev range, I know this first hand as back in the 70's I actually owned the most desirable 64 made (after the Shelby) a fully loaded fast back manual trans with disc brakes and hi output 289 V8 it was a fantastic bit of kit for the road.

[terence]

FIA wise Al,you have to run standard headers.
As for the internal machining,the one,s I saw were actually ground out,you can of course get the other abrasive treatment,at a price.

[zefarelly]

re manifolds

die grinder £25
carbide tool £6
stones £1
your time - free

for everything else theres cheating

[zefarelly]

App doesn't and shouldn't be any more or less expensive than any other series, one argument is if you run standard as it was homologated its probably the cheapest option there is, put a bit of effort/time into blue printing and good prep and you won't be miles off the pace if you can drive.

I agree tyres aren't cheap, but then we're racing not shopping, and if you have a heavy/powerful car . . . . . Dunlops are cheaper than a new shell, modern sticky rubber kills 50's/60's saloon shells

[terence]

Agree on that you old cynic Zef.

Modern tyres do increase the stress input to old shell,s.For better to have a car slide than grip,the grip level on sticky tyres in some case,s increases by approx 70%,think of our 40/50 year old susspension/chassis.

[zefarelly]

THanks Terry

this time next year I could be the youngest member of the grumpy old men team !

[Simon Hadfield]

Ah but suppose, just suppose that there was a cast manifold that looked externally just like an original but internally.........

[terence]

Simon,there is NO supposition.Have you not been reading the other post,s

[terence]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

THanks Terry

this time next year I could be the youngest member of the grumpy old men team !

????????

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Simon Hadfield

Ah but suppose, just suppose that there was a cast manifold that looked externally just like an original but internally.........

A bit like blocks you mean? This was also a Group A requirement and they really did flow on the Rovers.

Simon, be careful, you are appearing here far too regulalry.

This thread is really about the quantity of V8s and apart from a whinge about the standard of driving, its really turning into a "list the cheat" thread again. A bit like a broken record.

Moosehead's point is valid. If there is a set of regs that suits him there should be no reason why it is not a valid series to run in. Also if there are less areas to micro manage there are less areas in which to cheat.

AppK is fine too but I disagree that it is cheaper than other forms of historic motorsport because unless we have limitless time to play with machinery we need to pay someone to do the work for us and to take a casting and work it is not generally as cost effective as buying a ready made component. So we have to take the "garagist" out of any equations unless some are saying that if you don't build it yourself you aren't a racer?

Something was said elsewhere that to achieve the track width as homologated on a car the owner needed to space the wheels. That suggests then (as I already knew) that the manufacturer homologated extended steering arms and TCAs in order to achive that track width, hence to suggest that it is wrong to adapt something means that possibly the AppK regs were written with an intent but no knowledge of execution. That in itself leads to "interpretation" and pushing the envelope.

Back to V8s. No not too many just not all built or driven as they should be for their class of racing.

[zefarelly]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Something was said elsewhere that to achieve the track width as homologated on a car the owner needed to space the wheels. That suggests then (as I already knew) that the manufacturer homologated extended steering arms and TCAs in order to achive that track width, hence to suggest that it is wrong to adapt something means that possibly the AppK regs were written with an intent but no knowledge of execution. That in itself leads to "interpretation" and pushing the envelope..

twas me, and I explained at the time that the rim offset on most new wheels is different to old ones, theres more than an inch difference between my collection of rims,the correct period Dunlop steels give the right offset, but they're rarer than long TCA's. I'm not saying long TCA's didn't exist either, the rare Lotus ones are 1/4" longer than ford ones but theres nothing on the homologation papers to say how long they are.

I'm therefore going with the flow and forging some new titanium ones 1" longer than standard

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by terence bower

FIA wise Al,you have to run standard headers.
As for the internal machining,the one,s I saw were actually ground out,you can of course get the other abrasive treatment,at a price.

They are standard on those models, check it out especially the Shelby GT350 and a Ford option on the other model so surely they would homologate its use.

Heres a link http://www.sacramento-mustang.com/cg....dat%7CExhaust

[Al Weyman]

Hey Terry I know what yer beef is and why you started this thread, you are just gutted that Costello's idea of stuffing the excellent lightweight Rover Buick V8 engine in the B was not adobted a few years earlier! Bet if it was you would have been racing one for years instead of struggling with that old heavyweight antiquated old 4 banger of an engine.

Oh incidently check out the price of those Tri-Y's $189! Or just 90 quid to you and me now that may just be the real reason why there are so many V8's appearing.

[terence]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Hey Terry I know what yer beef is and why you started this thread, you are just gutted that Costello's idea of stuffing the excellent lightweight Rover Buick V8 engine in the B was not adobted a few years earlier! Bet if it was you would have been racing one for years instead of struggling with that old heavyweight antiquated old 4 banger of an engine.

Oh incidently check out the price of those Tri-Y's $189! Or just 90 quid to you and me now that may just be the real reason why there are so many V8's appearing.

Bugger! I,ve been rumbled!!

[terence]

I see what you mean Al,Tri,Ys that is.Thier OK on a Shellby,but probably not on a 289.The question then is "Were they Homologated for all Mustangs"?
Another one for you ,The Ginetta G11/12.Restyled MGB Body but a 289 stuffed under the bonnet. Never had race history internationaly so no papers.

[terence]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

twas me, and I explained at the time that the rim offset on most new wheels is different to old ones, theres more than an inch difference between my collection of rims,the correct period Dunlop steels give the right offset, but they're rarer than long TCA's. I'm not saying long TCA's didn't exist either, the rare Lotus ones are 1/4" longer than ford ones but theres nothing on the homologation papers to say how long they are.

I'm therefore going with the flow and forging some new titanium ones 1" longer than standard

Carbon Zef,dont forget the wheel retainers.

[pomracer]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

.

Simon, be careful, you are appearing here far too regulalry.

This thread is really about the quantity of V8s and apart from a whinge about the standard of driving, its really turning into a "list the cheat" thread again. A bit like a broken record.

b-------r, - There was I just thinking that i was going to learn all about "unobtanium" internals to cast iron manifolds.....

[terence]

[quote=pomracer]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

.

Simon, be careful, you are appearing here far too regulalry.

This thread is really about the quantity of V8s and apart from a whinge about the standard of driving, its really turning into a "list the cheat" thread again. A bit like a broken record.




b-------r, - There was I just thinking that i was going to learn all about "unobtanium" internals to cast iron manifolds.....

You could always visit some race prep shop,s who look after Mustangs.

[terence]

As back up to my original question,the Six Hour field was made up of 25% of V8s.The field at Silverstone Classic =35%.I think this is a worrying trend,perhaps there should be something purely for them.

[Moosehead]

By my poor maths skills that leaves 65% to split between 4 & 6 pot engines. Don't think there are two many 12's in saloons. So very nearly split neatly three ways

[Moosehead]

Oh and by the way, I want to slide around. When I first ran on the Dunlops my smile was wider than my car. I don't want it to stick like a modern and its certainly not a spaceframe special or NASCAR wannabee. Mine is all steel, still has all glass and all the windows wind down (even the rear). it only has 300 hp when I know App k are 400ish. More power next year with luck so might be able to get pesky Lancias off my back!!

[terence]

Personally Moose,I think we should all be on Histo,s.Good luck with the power hike,unfortunatly,I cant go any further with the "B",trouble is I cant think of what to replace it with.[Dont even think of it!!]

[Al Weyman]

It has been tried and failed on several occassions (V8's only), the original ASCAR then HARA I even went to a meeting about that at Brooklands and no one could agree on anything so that was basically that. There is Heritage HotRods now which by the look of it is mainly V8's. I personally dont think what you are proposing is strictly what the race going public (or marshals lets consider them as well as I know one of the reasons they do it is to watch the sport) want to see, they like to see the mixture of cars and some giant killing along the way I know I certainly do.

As for the Tri-Y's I was wondering if Ford Homologated them as it was available (I am almost certain) with a Ford part number. Would have thought they would have been somewhere in the world.

[terence]

Yes but there were never these amounts in period Al.So the chances of any giant killing are getting slimmer as the seasons carry on.It seem,s that every man and his dog want,s to go V8.I know that there are occaisions where say,my "B" will blow these cars away[Tiger in my avatar,but it was a Tiger!]
And we have seen Minis way up front[Al-be -it]in Goodwood "Tune".My point is that Personally I feel we have enough out there now,and the way things are going,I dont think we,ll see a reversal in the current trend.

[Al Weyman]

I am not sure there was'nt a good many in period, I have a picture somewhere showing many yanks on a BTCC grid, Mustangs, Chevys, Mopars may well have been a tad after the 66 cut off though, I will try to dig it out.