ALMS/Grand Am Fusion 2014

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Holt

There may be DPs at Le Mans soon

Not likely. With the new 2014 regs and maunfacturers expecting stability and the already maxxed grid size of 56 cars I don't see how DP cars could gain entry.

[Jacques Rabbit]

It's incredible to think that auto racing in America is truly dying. I know it's been for a while but...damn.

All we have is driver racing now. We care more about the people in the cars then the cars themselves, or those who prepared and designed them. We think subtle differences in driver skill can make racing exciting, as opposed to differing strengths and weakness of different vehicles over the course of a lap, a race, a season.

The United States has lost touch with racing. We just have competitions of cars on tracks. The Indy 500 and that series are nothing, NASCAR is nothing, Grand-Am is nothing, I just can't believe it. I can't believe we can't let the cars decide a god damned car race anymore. Has to be these heroic wonderful drivers who are so friendly and love signing your stupid junk for you and look at how they smile and have a wonderful wife and two great kids hooray!

I just want the cars back. Put the cars back in it. I didn't get into auto racing when I was six years old because I liked people. I got into it because I loved cars. Ferraris, minivans, I didn't care, I loved cars. So we watched car racing. All kinds of it. I've been to over 100 races, regretfully never ALMS, not yet.

But what we did on Sunday afternoons and evenings, we'll now have to do in the earliest hours of the week's first day. All the racing's overseas once ALMS disappears. It was the last good series the U.S. had.

[gregtummer]

From one of the few people on the SPEED forums who seems to get it:

"The cars are the stars"

[FordCosworthPanoz]

We need a violin and candles for this thread, good stuff...

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by gregtummer

From one of the few people on the SPEED forums who seems to get it:

"The cars are the stars"

'Get it': Agree with you.

[lms]

there was no interest in this kind of racing in na (aco prototypes) in the past few years. just a couple of private teams from the teams. And speaking of ACO, they didnt turned their backs on anyone, there will still be a US round of the wec. Lack of interest in the top categories killed the series. alms didnt really recovery after porsche and audi left after the 2008 season. Cant see why the aco would turn their backs on a series that is a feeder to the wec (sort of). The stronger the 3 regional champs are the stronger the wec will be. Anyway...
maybe its better for the alms to make radical changes than to sit around and die a slow, agonizing death.

[Holt]

Sounds like all the worry is over the fate of the prototype classes. Grand-Am has plenty of GT cars, more variety then the ALMS by the way.

Whoever gets control of the series after the merger wont do something stupid like dump the ALMS prototype class. You dont merge with something and then cut off one half's biggest asset. Its quite obvious what the backlash would be after doing something like that. And according to Daily Sportscar Grand Am has already been talking to the FIA about the Daytona 24 hours being added to the WEC. Would that even be remotely possible if the plan was to dump the Le Mans prototypes for the DPs?

If anything I think the DPs are in danger of being dumped. Worldwide the prototypes have more recognition and would be accepted.

The overreaction about this news is comical. I think most of it will blow over or die down once the official announcement is made and the details are released. At that point people will realize NASCAR isn't planning to make all the cars clones with stickers for headlights so they'll relax.

[Jacques Rabbit]

No, it is "get it."

It's auto racing. It's not driver racing. You can never argue that motorsport is not about the cars. Ever. You can argue about what makes exciting racing, to you, and that's an opinion. But the fact it's about the cars? Nope.

I'm not prepared for a world where the differentiating factors of a race are:

1. The driver's personality foremost.
2. The driver's driving second.

I enjoy racing decided by:

1. The design and performance of the cars.
2. The strategy.

I realize that's not for everyone. That's an opinion. But the cars are the stars? That's not, and anyone who is attending to see "Danica Patrick" or "Scott Pruett" isn't a racing fan at all. I don't care if you attend to see the Lola/Mazda, or if you attend to see a Corvette DP, or you attend to see a Car of Tomorrow, if you're there for the cars, you're there for the right reasons. The cars should race. The cars can't race when they get so overly regulated. Drivers racing? Couldn't care less, have them run a foot race, then, if we only care about them.

[Jacques Rabbit]

Also, as I said elsewhere, I will be the first to admit how much of a tool I am if this turns out to either be no big deal or even be a desirable outcome for sports car racing. But right now, I'm too worried to be rational, and care too much to be sane.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Jacques Rabbit

No, it is "get it."

It's auto racing. It's not driver racing. You can never argue that motorsport is not about the cars. Ever. You can argue about what makes exciting racing, to you, and that's an opinion. But the fact it's about the cars? Nope.

I'm not prepared for a world where the differentiating factors of a race are:

1. The driver's personality foremost.
2. The driver's driving second.

I enjoy racing decided by:

1. The design and performance of the cars.
2. The strategy.

I realize that's not for everyone. That's an opinion. But the cars are the stars? That's not, and anyone who is attending to see "Danica Patrick" or "Scott Pruett" isn't a racing fan at all. I don't care if you attend to see the Lola/Mazda, or if you attend to see a Corvette DP, or you attend to see a Car of Tomorrow, if you're there for the cars, you're there for the right reasons. The cars should race. The cars can't race when they get so overly regulated. Drivers racing? Couldn't care less, have them run a foot race, then, if we only care about them.

Most popular series in the World:

Formula 1
MotoGP
NASCAR
World Superbike
V8 Supercars
Indycar

What do all of those series have in common to which we are talking about? So 90% of racing fans in the world aren't 'racing fans'?

[lms]

Originally Posted by Holt

If anything I think the DPs are in danger of being dumped. Worldwide the prototypes have more recognition and would be accepted.

they just went to new regs and corvette and others have just built new cars for this year. and maybe others too like aston martin will come. On the other hand in 2014 the current lmp1 protos will become obsolete. maybe +1 year for those cars. Thats why I think it may be the end of lmp cars and dps will remain in the joined championship. But maybe in 2014 the new series will attract more teams to lmp if that will be the top class, maybe even manufacturer teams.

[picchiofan]

Originally Posted by Jacques Rabbit

No, it is "get it."

It's auto racing. It's not driver racing. You can never argue that motorsport is not about the cars. Ever. You can argue about what makes exciting racing, to you, and that's an opinion. But the fact it's about the cars? Nope.

I'm not prepared for a world where the differentiating factors of a race are:

1. The driver's personality foremost.
2. The driver's driving second.

I enjoy racing decided by:

1. The design and performance of the cars.
2. The strategy.

I realize that's not for everyone. That's an opinion. But the cars are the stars? That's not, and anyone who is attending to see "Danica Patrick" or "Scott Pruett" isn't a racing fan at all. I don't care if you attend to see the Lola/Mazda, or if you attend to see a Corvette DP, or you attend to see a Car of Tomorrow, if you're there for the cars, you're there for the right reasons. The cars should race. The cars can't race when they get so overly regulated. Drivers racing? Couldn't care less, have them run a foot race, then, if we only care about them.

Ahh, you watch racing "the right way", I get it. Good to know your hoity-toity "cars are the stars" series is broadcast on the ESPN channel for high school lacrosse games and just got sold to ISC for 10 cents on the dollar after its owners have been trying to dump it for the past 3 years.

Psst, guess what - the two most successful forms of motorsport in the world are F1 and NASCAR - two "driver focused" series.

The American Le Mans series is glorified club racing. Actually, come to think of it, NASA has a better TV package.

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by picchiofan

Ahh, you watch racing "the right way", I get it. Good to know your hoity-toity "cars are the stars" series is broadcast on the ESPN channel for high school lacrosse games and just got sold to ISC for 10 cents on the dollar after its owners have been trying to dump it for the past 3 years.

Psst, guess what - the two most successful forms of motorsport in the world are F1 and NASCAR - two "driver focused" series.

The American Le Mans series is glorified club racing. Actually, come to think of it, NASA has a better TV package.

I did chuckle at the last comment, but you're not far off.

Also, there is a niche for motorsport where the cars are the focus. Overall it is a human endeavor, my people can design, build, engineer and drive a car faster than your people. The growing popularity of the 24 Hours of Le Mans proves that, when the ALMS had its heyday it was its most "car"-focussed it has ever been.

There needs to be a fine balance. I'm hoping that whatever comes of the potential merger, the right balance is found.

Chris

[picchiofan]

Originally Posted by gregtummer

From one of the few people on the SPEED forums who seems to get it:

"The cars are the stars"

Oh look, one of the crapwagon shut-ins.

Bless your heart.

[gregtummer]

Originally Posted by picchiofan

Oh look, one of the crapwagon shut-ins.

Bless your heart.

Proud to be a member.

[TF110]

I can only hope that when this comes to fruition, they accept 2014 (ACO) regulations and it proves to interest American makes to that type of racing. Who says DP has to stay? If this combination 'works' and it brings in more attention and viewership, perhaps it will give it the boost needed to be respected enough to have either their ideas of cars accepted, or they adopt ACO rules. Maybe they go back to the way it was before LMP's took over and have their own American equivalent of LMPS like the IMSA GTP's to Group C? There is a lot of good that can come of this, but will it?

[The Badger]

DSC seem to think its a good thing considering what we know now , and as far as I can gather , they are a fairly sound , reasonable and knowlagable bunch of guys ..... so yeah , I'll go along with that view , although I dont fully understand excatly whats going on .

Daytona as part of the WEC would be massive !!!

[gregtummer]

From what I understood, WEC and LMPs would be too fast for Daytona due to their insurance. DPs were as fast as they wanted to go.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Daytona as part of the WEC would be massive !!!

What will the top class be? LMP1 or DP's. WEC was coached to existence by the LMP guys. I'm fine with dumping the DP cars and then WEC Daytona 24 is fantastic. I just don't want any ugly DP cars there.

Also I thought that was why they stopped racing LMPs at daytona. Because of the speeds on the banking and bottoming out. Then again Audi tested at Homestead a few times.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Articus

What will the top class be?

To me , obviously the fastest would be to top class .

[Articus]

Originally Posted by The Badger

To me , obviously the fastest would be to top class .

LMPS! I just feared they would try some hackjob balance of performance to get the LMP1's slowed down to DP pace...The GTE cars are as fast as the DP cars in the current configuration. How does FIA deal with that?

[gregtummer]

Aren't LMP2s cheaper than DPs?

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Articus

.The GTE cars are as fast as the DP cars in the current configuration. How does FIA deal with that?

No they aren't.

[picchiofan]

Originally Posted by gregtummer

Aren't LMP2s cheaper than DPs?

Nope.

[gregtummer]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

No they aren't.

1.2 seconds off at Mid-Ohio isn't a whole lot.