ALMS/Grand Am Fusion 2014

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

No they aren't.

shhh Johnny O' said they are so it must be true.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by gregtummer

1.2 seconds off at Mid-Ohio isn't a whole lot.

P4 at Baltimore isn't a whole lot either...

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by Jacques Rabbit

It's incredible to think that auto racing in America is truly dying. I know it's been for a while but...damn.

All we have is driver racing now. We care more about the people in the cars then the cars themselves, or those who prepared and designed them. We think subtle differences in driver skill can make racing exciting, as opposed to differing strengths and weakness of different vehicles over the course of a lap, a race, a season.

The United States has lost touch with racing. We just have competitions of cars on tracks. The Indy 500 and that series are nothing, NASCAR is nothing, Grand-Am is nothing, I just can't believe it. I can't believe we can't let the cars decide a god damned car race anymore. Has to be these heroic wonderful drivers who are so friendly and love signing your stupid junk for you and look at how they smile and have a wonderful wife and two great kids hooray!

I just want the cars back. Put the cars back in it. I didn't get into auto racing when I was six years old because I liked people. I got into it because I loved cars. Ferraris, minivans, I didn't care, I loved cars. So we watched car racing. All kinds of it. I've been to over 100 races, regretfully never ALMS, not yet.

But what we did on Sunday afternoons and evenings, we'll now have to do in the earliest hours of the week's first day. All the racing's overseas once ALMS disappears. It was the last good series the U.S. had.

YOU CAN STILL HAVE WHAT YOU WANT! It's called the internet! Use it to find that sort of stuff.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by gregtummer

From one of the few people on the SPEED forums who seems to get it:

"The cars are the stars"

The cars ain't paying the bills. Ask The Don about that.

[gregtummer]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

P4 at Baltimore isn't a whole lot either...

I can say so many things about the GT Corvette winning the Daytona 24 overall.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by gregtummer

I can say so many things about the GT Corvette winning the Daytona 24 overall.

And? It was a great day for sportscar racing, it wasn't even DP back then it was the FIA/ACO SRPs.

[TF110]

Yeah, don't know where people get this GTE's are as fast as DP's. They're ~200kg heavier and produce a little less power. They're aero is probably better which is why they're not so far behind at certain tracks.

[gregtummer]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

The cars ain't paying the bills. Ask The Don about that.

Grand Am is paying almost all the DP teams to race.

So Grand Am ain't paying bills either without NASCAR money.

[picchiofan]

Originally Posted by gregtummer

I can say so many things about the GT Corvette winning the Daytona 24 overall.

Beating an embarassing field of ACO prototypes in which Dyson was the premier team?

Deja Vu?

[Gil Abobeleira]

Originally Posted by picchiofan

Beating an embarassing field of WSC prototypes in which Dyson was the premier team?

Deja Vu?

And yet they were much faster than the DP that replaced them.

What about the GT3 Porsche win after that?

[gregtummer]

I know we are getting way ahead of ourselves here, but if DP or even LMP2 was the top class in this new series, what would the organizers do if Audi, Toyota, and Porsche all wanted to race their LMP1s in the Daytona 24 or Sebring?

I can't see them turning them away. Just let them run with MONSTER restrictions?

[FordCosworthPanoz]

ptclaus, please help spread some sense to the Trackforum sportscar forum with me.

[picchiofan]

Originally Posted by Gil Abobeleira

And yet they were much faster than the DP that replaced them.

What about the GT3 Porsche win after that?

GT2 spec Porsche, they beat the GTS/1 spec cars, the AGT (Trans Am) spec cars, the SRP2 class cars, and the 4 Daytona Prototypes that debuted that year, two of which hadn't turned a lap before the race began, as in no practice, quali, anything.

TRG had an amazing race with no issues, they didn't make a single unscheduled pitstop over a 24 hour race. That's unheard of. They also won Sebring and Lemans. Buckler and crew were unstoppable that year.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

I did chuckle at the last comment, but you're not far off.

Also, there is a niche for motorsport where the cars are the focus. Overall it is a human endeavor, my people can design, build, engineer and drive a car faster than your people. The growing popularity of the 24 Hours of Le Mans proves that, when the ALMS had its heyday it was its most "car"-focussed it has ever been.

There needs to be a fine balance. I'm hoping that whatever comes of the potential merger, the right balance is found.

Chris

That's the point though. The ALMS is not in a heyday. It has GT, which is fantastic, P1 and P2, which was a joke, and 2 other homogenous classes which made up most of the rest of the field. DP has a formula which at it's base and in it's infant stages is a bit homogenous, but it has potential to grow into something just as diverse as P1 and P2 was in the actual heyday of the ALMS. This is what gets me about what JR said. With turbos, DP has the ability to be as diverse as any prototype class before it. They have the abilty to look different as well. Not too different you say? Well most LMPs don't look too different from each other. LMP1 is basically copy Audi or Peugeot or both, and LMP2 is a contest of how can we clone the Oreca.


If you don't like the way DP's look that's great, but don't give me some BS excuse about cars being the stars like it's the grand reincarnation of Can- Am with no holds barred design and true innovation that changes the landscape of automotive design. LMPs cost a lot more and race at Le Mans for the effort. That's great. The real kicker is that most of the people boohooing and waxing poetically about the grand nature of the ALMS were the same people vehemently against the Delta Wing and what it stood for.

[gsmith2424]

Another GT car would have won in 2004 if Goodyear would have brought enough proper rain tires to the race as the winning DP (Doran #54) had a motor that was failing and the two GT cars (Orbit GT3 RSR and a Flying Lizard GT3 Cup Special) were closing at the end. However due to the red flags and heavily extended cautions due to lack of rain tires for the DP's the GT cars weren't able to get to the winning DP before the end of the race

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

ptclaus, please help spread some sense to the Trackforum sportscar forum with me.

I didn't even notice they had a thread.

[Duff_44]

Just doing some quickie math doing fastest race laps by class, at the two tracks both ALMS and G/A have raced at in 2012, Mid Ohio & Road America (G/A hasn't been to Laguna Seca or Lime Rock yet).
P1 = 100%

P1 100.0%
P2 104.0%
PC 106.7%
GT 112.3%
GTC 120.0%
DP 108.9%
GAGT 117.7%

[Gingers4Justice]

I hadn't checked any Motorsport news since Thursday. Wow.

The thick plottens.

What now for Corvette? Flying Lizards? Dyson? Dempsey?

These guys want to race at Le Mans but in a few years' time, the US won't have a series to race ACO cars in.

I fear repercussions on both sides of the pond here.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

I hadn't checked any Motorsport news since Thursday. Wow.

The thick plottens.

What now for Corvette? Flying Lizards? Dyson? Dempsey?

These guys want to race at Le Mans but in a few years' time, the US won't have a series to race ACO cars in.

I fear repercussions on both sides of the pond here.

Who says the series won't have an ACO class(or classes) in it, I doubt Grand Am is stupid enough to dump BMW, Corvette and Viper money.

[Salamus]

I come back from my daily duties and this is what shows up! I jumped out of my seat! I won't be going through 8 pages but I will put in my 2 cents.

I believe this sadly ends the relationship between Le Mans and North America. I see the new series having updated DPs, GT3s, and Grand-Am GTs. A lot of factors led to this but I can't see light at the end of the tunnel. Having NASCAR basically run sportscar racing...that sounds like trouble. I guess we will just have to wait and see.

[gsmith2424]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

Who says the series won't have an ACO class(or classes) in it, I doubt Grand Am is stupid enough to dump BMW, Corvette and Viper money.

When Brian France owns them stupidity is sure to follow.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

Who says the series won't have an ACO class(or classes) in it, I doubt Grand Am is stupid enough to dump BMW, Corvette and Viper money.

I just have a horrible feeling they are that stupid! I don't see a GA-ACO relationship magically forming. And Grand-Am already have Corvetter and BMW (?) anyway.

[picchiofan]

Originally Posted by Salamus

I come back from my daily duties and this is what shows up! I jumped out of my seat! I won't be going through 8 pages but I will put in my 2 cents.

I believe this sadly ends the relationship between Le Mans and North America.

Ends? What relationship was left between the ALMS and Le Mans? The Corvettes in GT? None of the teams in the prototype classes show up to run le mans, and only a handful of GT teams do. There's nearly as many Grand Am teams that show up to run Le Mans as there are ALMS.

[Salamus]

Originally Posted by picchiofan

Ends? What relationship was left between the ALMS and Le Mans? The Corvettes in GT? None of the teams in the prototype classes show up to run le mans, and only a handful of GT teams do. There's nearly as many Grand Am teams that show up to run Le Mans as there are ALMS.

I was talking about the rules...this sellout most likely means the end of LMP/GTE racing in NA.

[picchiofan]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

I just have a horrible feeling they are that stupid! I don't see a GA-ACO relationship magically forming. And Grand-Am already have Corvetter and BMW (?) anyway.

The FIA has had major representatives at the last two Daytona 24 hour races, and at all of the "NAEC" events this year for Grand Am. Grand Am's top brass were all in attendance at the Silverstone WEC race last weekend. There's more of a relationship than you think.