Thundersports

[jminsh]

Originally posted by PaulSands
Get a GT40

Only any good if they have the same refueling rules as this year !!!

[simon drabble]

I thought Elva's with BMW engines were not allowed in 6 Hour??? Otherwise I think you are right they are the compromise

[PaulSands]

were this years refuelling rules different from other years?

[simon drabble]

we seem to strayed off the subject of Thudersports but 60's sportscars is a very acceptable swerve!

[jminsh]

Yes last year the GT40's could only put 100 litres in which would last approx 11/2 hours this year it was what ever they could carry, bu99er - poor old E type just could do the pace

[PaulSands]

Was that as a concession to the celebrations Ford had throughout the year?

[jminsh]

More like they thought they'd better change the rules to let the people with the most expensive cars win.(cynic)

[simon drabble]

I have to say that has a very true ring to it!
At least that gives me a good excuse for my end results!!!

[gfm]

Simon, I enjoyed a couple of seasons in Thundersports 83 - 84. I had the good fortune to run a 2 litre TOJ BMW which was a wonderful car, entirely built for the job. There were a number of really super big cars class motors like Foulston's Can Am Lola, Martin Birraine's Ford C100, Siggi Brunn's 908 twin Turbo Porsche and Eddie Arundell's Lola DFV. Laterly we ran a BDG Tiga which was lightening quick. Think I have a picture here abouts.

There were a number of Sports 200O and they'd embarres you in the wet - well one or two did. The 2 litre class was really made up of homeless chassis, one or two decent but unusual engines. Maybe a couple of genuine 2 litre Sports cars. They were all really great to drive - a 320 bhp BDX or BDG or BMW M12 were great engines - and I don't recall too many big engined Sports 2OOOs suffering flexing.

Whether there would be a viable series now I don't know as many of the cars we used are now quite old and many components would need remaking and renewing. That all would get very expensive, evan impossible. Brake systems, bag tanks , joints and stuff.

[gfm]

The TOJ at Brands.

[gfm]

and the Tiga

[simon drabble]

Thanks GFM for that - is your Toj the one that keeps coming up for sale (I think I saw it being advertised again recently)
I am very interested in what you think about the Tiga as this with a BDV was exactly the route I was looking at -
do you think that would be competitive in Britsports? Also does anyone else know whether there would be anywhere else to run a car like that either here or in Europe?

[simon drabble]

Why did RJB Mining Championship stop and has anything replaced it? These cars are not prohibitively expensive to run like group C so what made the grids diminish?

[gfm]

Simon - I don't know whether the TOJ is the one which is up for sale.
The Tiga was brilliant, much of it based on Howden Ganley's work. It was really quick and tough; the harder you drove, the better it went. Unfortunately, I'm not aware of what Britsport is, but at the time, there were very few cars that would stay with it, given it's 300 bhp and plenty of downforce.
It was purpose built, not any sort of S2000 development. Quite a pricey car.
At the end of the day, motor racing series tend to disappear up there own arse in any case. After a season or two, maintenance gets to be a major issue and if you've been to most of the circuits a few times, you tend to want to move on. I thought the RJB mining series enjoyed a few years worth like Thundersport and died out of lack of interest. Some of the 2 litre sports cars have been doing many years worth of competition.

[Dan Rear]

John, a couple of interesting points there. Firstly the Tiga, was this the Chester Wedgwood car, did he or you own it? I presume it was based on a C2-type tub, hence the strength, was it an 87 car ?

Second you mention that 'you tend to want to move on', I guess this ultimatley reflects the human condition. Most people in most walks of life always seem to want to progress themselves, or 'move onwards'. Its only natural that it applies to drivers/teams too, and quite a healthy thing I think, for the benefit of the series in question, its nice to have new bllod coming in to replace those moving onwards. Like most things in life aswell, money/resources is a clear issue here. Sorry to get a bit philosophical !!

[simon drabble]

so the Tiga wasnt an uprated Sports 2000 - is it the general view that they were not up to handling BDG's?
You mention cost - it seems to me that compared to running a Climax they are pretty reasonable, the cost of tyres etc.. presumably adds up.
in view of the justifiable popularity of two driver races I wonder if there are enough interested parties to get a grid together??

[gfm]

Dan - yes this was Wedgewood's car. I drove the TIGA Sports 2000 in the States for a pro-season year and Chester's car was not a beefed up S2000 car. Your right, C2 type tub. It certainly handled the best BD motors and the BMW M12 motor which was my favourite, no problem. And super-quick, boy did it motor.
The sad thing about 'moving on' is that ultimately, all classes of racing disappear up their own chuffs sooner or later, except those with a specific stepping stone identity. Things need to be new pretty regularly.
Re cost Simon, I think the big deal here is just how hard you need to go to do well. Thundersports was not particularly competitive (ie there were not many 'comparable' cars) so you could stoke the things along at a fair lick without dropping valves or needing new tyres everytime you went up the pit lane. If it had been as close as the 2 Litre sports cars a few seasons earlier, then you might start to hit the lifing limits a little sooner.
2 driver series always open up more interest on the driver's side to help with costs.

[jamesl]

Simon,

I'm with you, I would be interested in racing a thundersports type car. Great cars and ought to be able to race in a good series somewhere. Sprint Modern at Spa RMU this year seems a good starting point, unless the Orwell Supersports will offer an invitation class to boost the fun on their grids.

[simon drabble]

what was the sprint modern race? Does Orwell struggle to get full grids? Whenever I have seen them they looked in good order... fortune favours the brave and at the moment there are several thundersport cars on the market for the same price as S2000. Its a shame that S2000 historic class cant get enough to hold stand alone races - if it did I would be tempted but the general S2000 races are not always held at the most interesting meetings (from a historic point of view)

[Garry Holmes]

Another point with Thunder Sports is it was enthusiastically promoted.

[jamesl]

Simon,

The sprint modern race was a 500 mile race at Spa in May 2005. There were 58 starters, with cars ranging from Normas-Jaguar XK8.The top 3 after 3 hours and 62 laps were seperated by 12 seconds. A Thundersports car with a YB cosworth would be good value car to race in this series. BDG power would only be worth the investment if Orwell opened their doors. I will check the strength of their grids this weekend.

[simon drabble]

would it be competitive as well?

[jamesl]

Simon,

You wont be winning but you will be in the midfield.

[simon drabble]

I tried to get RMU website open to look at the results
can you pls repost the link - are you down at Dijon thsi weekend - family committments stopped me going I am very jealous of those of you who go!

[cybersdorf]

For Britsports, look at www.eerc.co.uk (not the world's best website though)
The modern sprint is part of VdeV: www.vdev.fr
Not sure but this car could also be eligible for the Sports Car Challenge: www.sportscarchallenge.at - although this is a central European series it has British entrants.