New (Fantasy) Historic Race Series

[Mike Bell]

OK, I think we are all agreed that there is a lot of (maybe too much) choice out there for some cars, but as pointed out by RickT on the latest Derwent thread on the subject some don't seem to be that well catered for.

So given the opportunity to have another series, what should it be?

[delta]

Historic Mexico Challenge

[Cliff Ryan]

Originally Posted by delta

Historic Mexico Challenge

Yeah good idea

[RickT]

Perfect world for us would be the HSCC letting over 2 litre sports racers into their new 2 litre series !

Failing that a Historic Can-Am series based at Oulton, Donington and Croft would do the trick

Cheers
Richard

[SZRacer]

Er, under 1300cc Italian GT Cars?

[Mike Bell]

It will probably be no surprise to some that my wish would be one series for Gp1, Gp2 and GpA saloons from late 60s to late 80s. All racing on tyres they used in period- slicks or treaded, and in carefully defined classes. Cars would be to correct specification for declared year, whether original or built out of period. So everything from Alfa GTA, BMW and early Escort via Jags, SD1s etc through to M3 and Sierra era.

[Peter Mallett]

Mike. That would apparently only work if you re write the regs to include large drivers in the weight of the car and only three laps so it would be cheap.

[Al Weyman]

And where would you get all these old period tyres Mike? Dunno why you have such a downer on the driver weighed in the car Peter its currently the norm in F1, BTCC, probably GT's and all the BMW championships its called progress. It doesnt effect the the lighter driver as everything for him remains the same just balances it out for the bigger guy I really fail to see a problem with that. It also simplifies and speeds up post race scrutineering as its more or less a drive through on the weigh bridge, it works well simple as that.

[Peter Mallett]

But it is NOT Group 1 App J! Which is the point.

[Al Weyman]

Nor are big brakes, roller cams, none standard carbs, 8000rpm all steel Essex engines producing 300bhp etc etc etc. and a few other things I can think of. I think purely Group 1 departed many years ago.

[Peter Mallett]

Exactly. Which is another reason why I'l never run out with CTCRC again.

Incidently. Ford homologated vented discs for the Capri for Grouup 1 and Group 2. Its in the certificate.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Incidently. Ford homologated vented discs for the Capri for Grouup 1 and Group 2.

And the Gp1 Escorts.

Al, to clarify on tyres I mean period construction tyres- such as Avon crossply slicks or treaded Dunlops that are still made! Sorry for confusion.

OT but what the heck- The 924 series race weight includes driver and the car I bought was driven by a whippet so had massive dumbell plates bolted to the floor. This had started to sag!

[Peter Mallett]

Yes, I have no problem with historic or classic series that don't purport to be based upon FIA regs, running any weight calculation they like.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Yes, I have no problem with historic or classic series that don't purport to be based upon FIA regs, running any weight calculation they like.

100% with you on that Peter.

RickT / Richard, have you been running in Masters with the CanAm car?

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Nor are big brakes, roller cams, none standard carbs,

Sorry Al to pick up on this further. The Cars ran larger carbs if homologated hence the Capri runs a 48IDA because Ford homologated it for high altitude locations. Already explained about brakes.

8000rpm all steel Essex engines producing 300bhp etc etc etc. and a few other things I can think of. I think purely Group 1 departed many years ago.

Yup all steel, roller cams etc. were all available in period but were not homologated for Gp1, thus cannot/should not be used.

My car is as close as the regs could get to Group 1 in 1998 and it hasn't changed since then. No need. It is at the homologated weight, runs homologated components and is reasonably quick (when fuel pumps aren't breaking up ). If I were to run to the revised weights for the CTCRC it would be under 1056kg and that is not Group 1. I also run with no additional cooling holes in the bodywork, I don't run adjustable TCAs either.

[RickT]

Hi Mike

Yes, we run a 1968 McLaren M6B, we did the early Brands Masters round where he really struggled with mysteriously low grip in R1, but some tweaks improved it a little bit for R2, then later on we did the Donington event where we think the diff started to play up (this might have been part of the grip problem at Brands too). Will know more when customer work steadies off and we can have a proper look at it.

Should be back out for more Masters this year, perhaps one of the new Peter Shleiffer organised Can-Am events if they go ahead.

Cheers
Richard

[Al Weyman]

Pete I think you are getting confused somewhat with the weight thing. The weights are the same only weighed with driver onboard and an allowance of 75kgs has been added to the original weights to allow for that. So if you weight 75kgs the car will still have to weigh the same as before. Now there are not many guys weighing under that so no extra ballast will be required by anyone but of you are a porker you can if you like strip a bit of weight off, whether you would bother or not or as in my case could find anymore to strip off is another point. A lot of the Capris I see have a bit of ballast strapped in so this could help the heavier driver and level the playing field, and anyhow the regs in CTCRC have surely always been 'loosly' based on Group 1 or 1.5 but in a more practical way for todays marketplace. Maybe a name change wouldnt go a miss to appease the purists.

OH BTW the original suggestion by me on the weight with driver thing has not been implemented as I proposed, I wanted the old weights without driver to still be relevant just add 75 kgs if driver opted to stay in the car but for some unknown reason that was seen to be too complicated whereas I think to add 75kgs when a bloke is sitting in the car would not be beyond most scruts, that way even a 60kgs driver wouldnt loose out. It may also have satisfied the purists.

[rogerwills]

I thought this was for fantasy race series posts......

Perhaps Al and Peter can rent a room and discuss driver weights - otherwise it seems to sneak into every thread!

[rogerwills]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

OK, I think we are all agreed that there is a lot of (maybe too much) choice out there for some cars, but as pointed out by RickT on the latest Derwent thread on the subject some don't seem to be that well catered for.

So given the opportunity to have another series, what should it be?

A series of 3, 6 and 9 hour races for historic sportscars and GTs up to 1970. Imagine GT40s, Lola T70s, Cobras, E-types, etc all running endurance races into the dark. Wow.

And perhaps one 24 hour race a year for the same.

Treaded tyres only, no slicks.

Off to bed to dream of this one......

[jhh911]

A race series where we get prize money again! that would be truly historic.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by rogerwills

A series of 3, 6 and 9 hour races for historic sportscars and GTs up to 1970. Imagine GT40s, Lola T70s, Cobras, E-types, etc all running endurance races into the dark. Wow.

And perhaps one 24 hour race a year for the same.

Treaded tyres only, no slicks.

Off to bed to dream of this one......

Nice one Roger. The sight of sports racers at Silverstone Classic (year before last?), headlamps blazing as dusk fell, was memorable to say the least!

jhh911- maybe if events were getting tens of thousands of spectators it could happen!

[Tim the Grey]

Whisper it? *Publicity*
Promote it, and they will come. So long as it's not silly money, so offer "family tickets". I wonder if Silverstone could arrange a 'car park bank' like they sometimes did at Abbey, before that bank went? Charge a nominal premium, but you can park in the car, bring the picnic, watch the racing cars...

[zefarelly]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Historic motorsport is fantasy isn't it?

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Historic motorsport is fantasy isn't it?

[Dan Rear]

Pre-1984 F2 and F Atlantics. Like HF2, but letting in the later G-E cars aswell.